You gotta wonder about the cost effectiveness of that. Ongoing maintenance costs are bound to be a bit of a nightmare (?).
Maybe buying some of the ex JCA Alenia C-27Js would have provided better disaster relief capabilities? [at the sacrifice of payload and range but the gain of genuine STOL/rough field.]
Or buying an An-124.
Anyone any idea of the relative prices? [I could be comparing apples with steak!]
Now, can we get back to the topic, & the significant factors?
You are among the bunch that refused to read his significant factor and instead focused on the irrelevant.
The significant factor is that the Swiss Air Force do not need anything beyond an air policing capability.
No need for Typhoon, Rafale or Subpar Hornet. Indeed, there would be no need for Gripen if there was a cheaper supersonic option. The M346 is probably a little bit too slow.
Even the JF-17 would do the job – only the spares support wouldn’t be deemed good enough!
If they actually had aircraft in service with AESA etc.
That is not a demonstrator.
Can any disappointed 737MAX customers or would-be customers buy CS300 instead? Like the airlines for whom 737MAX was slightly too much plane, but A320 far too much?
No idea. I guess that would be a contractual matter between them and Boeing.
Assuming the performance issues are for real, then I suppose considerations would include:
– What clauses exist on performance guarantees/penalties?
– Did they make firm orders, letters of intent or some other executive-speak thing that doesn’t really mean much but can be included as an “order”?
– Just how bad is (if any) the performance shortfall to guarantees?
– Is there a mitigation plan in place after the aircraft is delivered? What happens if this plan doesn’t meet further guarantees?
Not without having a show home first. At the moment there is no demonstrator, and that’s the weakness.
Not always.
But yes, a demonstrator certainly helps, a lot. (As Saab did kinda do with the Gripen.)
And if “terrorism” is all you’ve got, then it’s clear that Switzerland simply doesn’t need a fast jet capability, given that there are about a million more cost-effective ways to invest in counter-terrorism, even within the narrow field of military spending, which is of course horrifically inefficient for that purpose. If Germany, France, and Italy are not considered a sufficiently credible threat to call for maintaining a fast jet capability, then the capability isn’t needed.
What your saying is pretty much right, but these eejits aren’t reading what your writing, they are reading what they want to read.
The Swiss do not need fast jets. Extension of existing arrangements with neighbouring countries would see to that*. They certainly don’t need fast jets with bells and whistles. No doubt the airforce will see all the bling bling and get envious then invent need to justify said bling bling.
The Gripen is more than enough jet for them. Indeed, if there were a cheaper supersonic jet available with dependable logistical support into the future, it would be the better choice.
*In a similar manner to the RAF providing “cover” over Ireland.
which is like trying to sell a house before it’s built.
Ha, thats pretty much what sensible builders do these days!
Sell the house based on generic plans, then build and customise to the client’s wishes.
Well then, I guess Boeing should just shut up shop then, the expert has spoken!
Did I hit a sore point? Or just in a sensitive mood today?
Boeing will probably do alright-ish*. The slot constraints on A320 will see to that. But their SA market share would drop, maybe significantly.
For GE and Snecma it could be a bit of a disaster – they could be paying out penalties for a good few years.
Not too many are going to buy the C919 for performance reasons, so it is kinda irrelevant.
*But they may be getting forced into a corner on two things. 1. Invest more money and engineering time than envisaged into airframe improvements to make up the shortfall. 2. Move the timeframe for NSA forward.
Neither are ideal.
The improvements they’ve made in the aerodynamics should cancel out most if not all of this fuel burn issue.
Those improvements will have already been factored into guarantees given to customers.
There will also undoubtedly be PIPs along down the line that will bring the engine to or past target. Much like the engines on the 787 and 748.
As I said, over its 25 year life, the sfc of the V2500 improved by about 5%. CFM will hopefully be able to beat that, but its not a forgone conclusion.
Furthermore, often performance guarantees are given relative to the competition. P&W reckon they can add several percent improvement to the GTF by 2020 as they are so much further down the learning curve of the geared fan and don’t have a very optimised thermal cycle, CFM by contrast are already optimising the thermal cycle (while not focussing overly on propulsive efficiency). Therefore, the PIPs would not only have to get performance to spec, but bridge to the performance upgrades installed on the GTF in the intervening time.
Not good for the MAX or the C919.
So what is the range of 737MAX?
Dunno. I don’t have access. I’m getting the info 2nd hand.
This leaped off the page at me:
Tim Clark speaking about an A380 re-engine:
“I don’t want to suggest the current aircraft isn’t a good machine because it is. It’s the most profitable aircraft in our fleet,” he says.
True (and a helluva expensive subscription it is too!), I did note the pertinent number below though. 🙂
how effective was this ability?
Effective enough.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again. In the late 80s, the MiG-29/A-11 combination would have utterly dominated the skies over europe in a real war.
The ability to avoid being restricted to a few heavily targeted airfields is a part of that.
and what penalties did it impose in terms of weight, maintenance… compared to the Western approach?
As others have said, heavier u/c leading to a heavier airframe.
But conversely, when operating off paved runways (i.e. 99.9% of the time), maintenance will be reduced. FOD probability will also be reduced.
http://leehamnews.com/2015/03/29/bombardier-cs300-analysis/
On a 900 nm mission, the CS300ER is:
– 14.6% more efficient per seat than 737-7 MAX
– 32.5% more than 737-700W
– 15.2% more than A319neo
– 37.1% more than A319ceo.
Note, a ~15% seat advantage over the big-two RE-ENGINED offerings!
[For reference]
CS300: 135 seats
B737-7: 140 seats
A319: 134 seats
Assuming Bombardier can get it to market, even the most inept of marketing departments should be able to sell those numbers!