News for you.
Its both.
From head on, it can be the lower figure. Indeed, both aircraft would have had a requirement for reduced frontal RCS when in gestation in the 80s.
But, viewed, say, directly from above, it could be 50 m2.
Then again, viewed from the wrong angle, the RCS of the F-22 or F-35 will be measured in tens of m2, it’s just it’ll occur at less angles for those two.
During deployments, your focus is on a small subset of your fleet that is actually forward deployed.
Ah, I see.
So you cannibalise the rest of the fleet to keep at least one squadron operational. I guess that is fine – bit onerous on your logistics chain.
But sure who cares about the army needing USAF AMC* assets to deliver bullets, grenades and mortar rounds to the folks on the ground getting shot at. Those C-17s are much better off spending their time shuttling half-dismantled JSFs around the globe instead.
Back home, I suppose the ANG would be using F-16s or something else anyway.
*I don’t believe AMC should be part of the USAF anyway. The Army is continually under-supported by airlift and the USAF don’t give two fks.
As an earlier example with the Rafale stated you can take the overall 50-60% readiness rate to well above 90% at times of surge and deployment
If you have the parts.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lockheed-struggles-with-f-35-sustainment-442609/
So if they actually had to take this thing to war, they’d be able to stand up what, 2 jets a squadron with the rest being cannibalised for parts?
Or would they ask the enemy to kindly hold fire for a few years while they meander through the procurement process before even building the fking parts?
BTW, why the discourteous, rude response?
Simply because your like a lemming trying to defend the indefensible.
Despite their bluster and bull – once again when push come to shove and missiles were fired in anger in conditions that were not pathetically once-sided – the Pks are utter rubbish.
No one ever calls out the missile manufacturers out on it and no one ever factors in real world experience of missiles under the “fog of war” when doing their little plans of how things go.
Missiles should be tested in much more realistic conditions – right up to firing them (minus warhead) at piloted aircraft. Yet when this was proposed on this very forum, the supposedly knowledgeable shouted it down. No doubt some of those involved in that thread are probably involved in the industry and want the status quo to very much continue.
I’m sure the USAF or USN would be delighted to learn that in the real world, their flashy new JSF has about a decent chance of destroying a total of one opposition aircraft with 4 AAMs*. No point having the most expensive sniper rifle in the world if your bullets are made from chocolate.
*Pk made up – but 1 in 4 is a better ratio than 0 in 3.
Do you know what a Searcher 2 UAV is? The missile is larger than the UAV! Most likely the UAV is too small, too slow, too low. Probably very hard to maintain a lock, discern target from ground clutter.
hahahahahahaha
pathetic.
So you mean the missiles are of **** all use in intercepting cruise missiles then?
Good to know.
The F-111 was much earlier though.
Your right, I didn’t realise just how much earlier the F-111 came long c.f. the teens.
A Flanker design was impossible with early 60s technology. Besides, the Su-27 is unsuited for the F-111 mission.
I would not say a Flanker was impossible with early 60s technology. It wasn’t an unstable design.
Much the same for the F-14. No Flanker can take off with 6 Phoenix missiles from a carrier and land with 4.
No Flanker has, but could a CATOBAR Su-33 do it? I think it could.
According to Wiki – which instantly means pinch of salt – OEW for the two favours the Su-33 by ~1400 kg and MTOW favours the F-14 by ~700 kg. So theoretically, the Su-33 has a ~700 kg fuel/payload advantage.
Also, combining the missions of F-111 and F-14 into a single design has been tried, it didn’t go well.
True, it didn’t go well. But I consider that due to the F-111 being ill-suited to carrier operations – we know that isn’t the case for the Su-33.
I have already stated that the Flanker wouldn’t be able to do all things as well as the dedicated platforms, and cited low level speed as an issue.
In short, what you’re proposing is a common airplane designed in the early sixties at Su-27 i.e. mid-seventies levels of technology, able to fly low-level strike missions at high speeds over long distances, flying fleet defence with 6 AIM-54 missiles, and on top of that being a nimble air superiority fighter for the european theater.
Yep, more or less.
You’d probably have to have specialised sensor pods for mission specifics, FAST packs probably.
A programme like that would make the F-35 look like a walk in the park. It would have led to US forces flying F-4s today.
The F-35 has problems due to trying to break the laws of physics – a fat airframe with a short assed stumpy fuselage with small wing aspect ratio trying to do everything including STOVL (that and the LHD requirement really screw it over).
A Flanker operating as an interdictor, a fleet air defense or a front line air dominance fighter does not. Why do we know this? Because it is now doing, or has already done, all 3 quite well anyway.
The USN has no need of a STOBAR capable strike fighter and with them the F-14 was the heavy fighter with the F/A-18 being the smaller one. They had no need for the F-15 since the Tomcat suited their mission requirements better (radar, missile combo etc).
In my timeframe, the Flanker airframe would have been developed for the VFX, FX and FTX. It would make no sense for NATO to develop a frame in response to those (if you know what I mean) – so yes, while the Flanker did come on the scene a decade later – for this topic to make any sense it had to be on the design boards in the 1960s and not 70s.
Making a STOBAR aircraft into a CATOBAR aircraft is relatively straightforward – especially if envisaged from the get-go.
Both Canada and Australia were offered the F-15, among others, but chose the smaller and cheaper Hornet.
Oh. Didn’t know that.
Ahm, no?
Check the first flight and IOC dates. F-111, F-14 and even the F-15 are much older designs than the Flanker. If anything, Flanker could have battled for the F-111 replacement.
Well, given the most similar airframe is the F-15; my assumption was based on a flanker-esque airframe developed at that time.
Obviously, the US were not going to develop any heavy fighter to enter service a few years after the IOC of the Eagle and Tomcat!
Regarding the original question though, all in all various F-15 variants fill the Flanker’s role very well, so my answer would be no – the West is not missing out on anything.
Disagree.
The Su-33 is capable of STOBAR operations. No Eagle variant can do anything similar.
Is the west missing out by not having a flanker size aircraft
I wouldn’t say that exactly.
I would say, that if the US had build the Flanker, it could have met the requirements of FTX, FX and VFX – perhaps not quite as well in all areas as the individual platforms* – but good enough to allow one common airframe to do.
*For instance, sea-level dash would be pretty rough compared to F-111.
So, no F-111, no F-15, no F-14… probably no F/A-18 C/D and thus no F/A-18 E/F.
I would say Canada and Australia would have loved access to a Flanker-eqsue airframe to cover their large patrol areas. The USN would probably be keen on the payload-range relative to any Hornet and the USAF would have liked the more flexible option of 2x flanker squadrons compared to 1x Aardvark and 1x Eagle.
It could have been the original Joint Strike Fighter, only a heavy version and without the daft LHD and VTOL requirements.
Interesting and original but worthless. Generating pitch up for a fwd centered aircraft with a section profile shaped for positive lift is like building a car for driving it in reverse!
Ok, here is what the movable wingtip were meant to be:
Subsonic and super to hyper sonic aerodynamics are very different.
To say one on a subsonic aircraft is worthless, then compare it to a super/hypersonic aircraft is pointless.
The SB4 was abandoned as the isoclinic wing didn’t work as expected. Not the controls which were actually praised.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1953/1953%20-%201381.html
After the” Sherpa’s first flight on October 4th the company’s chief
test pilot, Tom Brooke-Smith, is quoted as saying, ‘”It was, by
any standard, a satisfactory first flight. The Sherpa does not appear
to suffer from the longitudinal sensitivity normally associated with
the tailless configuration. My initial impressions of the stability
and control of the aircraft are very favourable.”
How about this for thought.
In an era of unprecedented information and connectivity…. do we still need a representative democracy to take care of absolutely everything about the country? [This extends to local councils as well as parliament.]
A simple example would be a decision to go to war – this could fairly easily be done with an eVote.
Obviously, with increasing complexity of decision comes increasing complexity of voting. Taxes and spending would take some thought.
[Or are there still too many people who aren’t online and wouldn’t be able to have their say?]
How about this for thought.
In an era of unprecedented information and connectivity…. do we still need a representative democracy to take care of absolutely everything about the country? [This extends to local councils as well as parliament.]
A simple example would be a decision to go to war – this could fairly easily be done with an eVote.
Obviously, with increasing complexity of decision comes increasing complexity of voting. Taxes and spending would take some thought.
[Or are there still too many people who aren’t online and wouldn’t be able to have their say?]