orko_8Been a member for almost 18 years. Always enjoyed reading all the knowledge-rich discussions but the redesigned interface and layout totally killed all that joy, not to mention the usability.
orko_8Is the “T130” designation official? What is the source for it?
orko_8Not even the BLK 40 versions ?
Turkey used AIM-7 only with F-4E Phantom II’s. Upgraded F-4E 2020’s did not retain the capability.
orko_8Turkey never used AIM-7 with F-16’s and I doubt any version in TurAF inventory was AIM-7 capable.
orko_8As far as I know, Turkish F-16’s never used AIM-7. They were used by F-4E’s, but the capability was removed (again, AFAIK) in the F-4E 2020 upgrade programme.
orko_8Obviously there has been various incidents in many military bases, but anyone who acted outside the chain of command were stopped by the soldiers within the chain of command; I don’t buy the part that whole thing is stopped by some truck drivers parking their trucks at gates or on runways. Since the chain of command was broken, there also has been much confusion as great majority of coup soldiers were unaware they were participating in the coup taken to streets with the orders of “military drills againist terrorism” or “precaution againist an expected terrorist attack”. Majority surrendered or just left right after they’ve learned about the truth (Ataturk airport for example, there is a video of the dialouge between the tank commander and the civillians). Whatever happened, all military bases excluding Akıncı AFB, didn’t want to participate in the coup and anyone who tried to act outside the chain of command arrested… Its not that the trucks or angry crowds deterred them. And maybe 8000 soldiers and 230 tanks and IFVs participated in the coup, but only perhaps 1000 soldiers were really active Gulenist coup attemters. 24 coup soldiers dead, 49 injured and 700 surrendered as declared in 16th july kind of supports this; Plus, I scouted entire majority of ankara at around 11am 16th. All I’ve saw was 5 M-113s, 2 ACV-IFVs, between Gendarmie HQ and the palace (which probably fell back for a last stand) and an additional ACV which probably abandoned after it lost its track, and 2 M-60T tanks. I don’t buy some 500 soldiers and 10 armored vehicles really expecting to take over the city from 17000 strong police force..
Since you are quite an expert in military topics, were you in the position of the coup planner, and you had so little amount of soldiers (I am counting all 8000);
-Would you waste your most advanced armor (leo2 tanks) and hundreds of manpower on blocking bhosphorus bridges like some angry taxi drivers’ protest, which would have zero strategic importance in a coup?
-Would you use all F-16’s to alert everyone you are making a coup even before you make your move againist PM or president, or would you have preferred a more covert plan like assasinate key figures first, then making the show with F-16s?
-Since intelligence service suspected coup, would you attempt the coup earlier than planned 22:00am at friday night when most folks are already at the streets cafes bars etc or would you delay it to another day?
-Would you waste your LGBs (which you have no hope of reloading) on heavily fortified building like parliament, or strategically insignificant targets like garden of the palace etc? Or would you have targeted communication, and electricity first? We all watched live coup like a soccer game, in a country you can’t watch youtube without tampering DNS settings.
-Even if you -stupidly and uselessly- wanted to bomb parliament, what would have been your choice of munition againist a building designed to withstand hits from ballistic missiles? Puny GBU-12’s -which barely strached the roof and smashed the windows- or readily available NEB or comperable 2000lb bunker busters?Either this coup was planned by a janitor or something, or it was more of a terrorist attack then to call it a “coup attempt”…
The answer is very simple: The coup was not planned and executed under full chain of command, but targeted the “nerve system” of the armed forces.
The primary aim was to take over the full chain of command and capability of the armed forces, an aim that was not sought after in the previous coup.
While doing so they also tried to capture or kill the president.
They did not bomb the presidental palace main building on purpose.
orko_8-Similar stupid claims of fire trucks blocked runways in Malatya to prevent pro-coup aircraft from taking off. So those coup guys had crew & equipment to prepare sufficent number of cargo aircraft to transport 5000 commandos, and arm a full squadron of F-4Es, (both claimed by news agency not me) but they couldnt arrange a aircraft tug, tractor or tow truck etc to move fire trucks from the runway? 20 of those mentioned commandos could have even pushed those trucks off the airfield with their bare hands. But no, our heroic firefighters stopped the whole invasion.. BS and BS.
Those eight cargo aircraft arrived to Malatya fro Kayseri and prevented take off at early hours of July 16th. And there was indeed some incident between the coup supporters and ARFF crew of Malatya MJB before police raid.
orko_8http://www.ensonhaber.com/erdoganin-ayrildigi-yerleskeyi-bombaladilar-2016-07-16.html
That sounds like a fog of war & misinterpretation mix up! 🙂 There was indeed “bombing” of the hotel but in terms of a lot of hand grenades and underbarrel grenade launchers
orko_8As far as I remember the president never said the hotel he was staying was bombed.
On the other hand, at least two LGB’s were dropped to Police: One at the front gate area of the Police Special Operations HQ (more than 40 spec ops died) and another on at the front of a hangar at Police Aviation Division, which are two separate facilities adjacent to each other.
Among the 7 police members that died at the hangar, some of them were ground personnel that were readying the helicopter. Tough subject to confirmation, according to latest information that I reached, it was a Bell 429, NOT an S-70i.
As for the Cobra / Super Cobra / T129 shootdown info: This probably never happened and I think it is the misinterpretation of the destroyed Police helicopter. However, it is confirmed that a largen number of helicopters at the Army Aviation Command received extensive damage during the fire exchange between coup T129 and Gendarmerie special forces. Additionally, after the coup was foiled, at least 10 helicopters of different types landed at Akinci 4 MJB. It is highly possible that these helicopters were also destroyed / damaged during bombing by loyal F-4E 2020’s and F-16 on the morning of July 16th.
Repair of the runways of 4MJB underway.
orko_8“F-16 dropped an LGB. The target was illuminated by another F-16 (either LANTIRN or SNIPER). The Prime Minister also acknowledged total loss of one helicopter there. It is not clear how many bombs were dropped.”
Do you have the source for this statement?
Sorry both in Turkish:
Regarding the helicopter, statement by PM himself (7 killed in the helicopter, suggesting it was an S-70i): http://www.milliyet.com.tr/basbakan-yildirim-golbasi-polis-siyaset-2282190/
Regarding the GBU, testimony by the pilot who dropped the bomb himself (Lt Col Mustafa Azimetli): http://www.cnnturk.com/video/turkiye/golbasina-bomba-yagdiran-pilot-sucunu-itiraf-etti
(According to a pro-gov newspaper, it was GBU-10E http://www.milliyet.com.tr/ozel-harekat-i-pkk-bombasiyla-gundem-2284091/)
orko_8A Third version of the story appeared on a newspaper claiming to be quoting the F-16 pilot who bombed the security directorate, claimed he dropped second bomb to stop a Police helicopter before it took off. All are BS if you ask me.
Currently both TSK and politicians claim all heavy equipment, tanks, armoured vehicles, ships, fixed wing aircraft and helicopters are accounted for, but some small arms and ammo is missing from the inventory.
Yes and no: The Police SOF teams were securing the perimeter of the HQ to repel an expected tank attack and some of them were about to enter APC’s, when an F-16 dropped an LGB. The target was illuminated by another F-16 (either LANTIRN or SNIPER). The Prime Minister also acknowledged total loss of one helicopter there. It is not clear how many bombs were dropped.
Could the helicopters come from neighboring countries?
No
orko_8There have been conflicting reports on such an incident from the very start of the incident. Some sources say one S-70, some say one AH-1W was shot down. No confirmation, visual or written has been made available yet.
So far the two most common stories are:
1. One S-70A and one AH-1 (or T129) attacked MIT (national intel agency) HQ. S-70A was shot down during insertion of commandos.
2. One AH-1 (or T129) was shot down while / after attacking TurkSAT (state satellite operator) HQ.
orko_8Turkish Tomcat’s:
orko_8Two TAI T129A attack helicopters patrolling over Sirnak: http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Milliyet-Tv/video-izle/Polis-noktasina-roketatarli-saldiri-XAda64XSb6aD.html
orko_8Footage of the FLIR Systems Star Safire 380HD of a police Bell 429 while supporting operations in Diyarbakir – Silvan province: http://tv.haberler.com/silvan-daki-teror-operasyonu-havadan-goruntulendi-7614254-videosu/
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