orko_8It’s so funny and sad at the same time, as it can only mean that both of the two major greek defence news sites are lying, each for their own reasons.
The truth as usual lies somewhere in between.
I woudln’t use the word “lying”, it’s something like which side of the glass you’re looking at: the empty half or the filled half?
My understanding is that DCNS is indeed seeing Greece as an opportunity for a contract, but the % possibility of signing it in short term has decreased considerably.
On other news, again from J:
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2010
Jane’s Defence Weekly
No end in sight for TKMS Hellenic Shipyards sale
Matthew Bell Jane’s Industry Reporter
London
Key Points
*
Thyssenkrupp’s proposed sale of a stake in Hellenic Shipyards is unlikely to conclude soon, sources have told Jane’s
*
The Greek government recently indicated that it supported the sale of a majority holding to an Abu Dhabi company
Thyssenkrupp’s proposed sale of a majority holding in Hellenic Shipyards (HYS) to the Abu Dhabi MAR (ADM) Group looks unlikely to be completed in the near future, according to sources close to the talks, despite the deal apparently receiving the blessing of the Greek government.
Although Thyssenkrupp informed Greek authorities in December 2009 that it was in favour of ADM as preferred bidder for the sale, sources told Jane’s that “the whole [sale] process has just started” and imminent conclusion is unlikely.
The Greek government said that a new joint ownership scheme for the shipyards “will be led by ADM, which will hold 75.1 per cent of the share capital of Skaramanga shipyard [Hellenic Shipyards] with Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems [the unit of ThyssenKrupp in which the German conglomerate’s naval interests are housed] participating with 24.9 per cent”, according to a Reuters news report of 1 March.
Reports of the Greek government’s consent to such an arrangement with ADM come after it emerged in October 2009 that ThyssenKrupp intended to sell an 80 per cent stake in each of its core marine systems companies – Blohm + Voss Shipyards, Blohm + Voss Repair, and Blohm + Voss Industries – to ADM.
The proposed sale was preceded by the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) between Thyssenkrupp and ADM to form a 50/50 joint venture company for the construction of naval ships. The MoU was a prelude to the sale of majority stakes by ADM, ThysennKrupp said at the time.
Thyssennkrupp’s interest in divesting HYS was highlighted extensively in the final months of 2009. The future of the yard – the largest in the Eastern Mediterranean – was under discussion as TKMS conceded in October that there was “no work” and “no money” following the collapse of two submarine procurement and upgrade contracts with the Greek government.
It was reported in late September that TKMS had cancelled the contracts – the construction of four Papanikolis-class (Type 214) submarines (the Archimedes programme) and the modernisation of three Type 209 boats for the Hellenic Navy (the Neptune programme) – following two years of wrangles.
TKMS maintains that payments of EUR524 million (USD783.2 million) – including EUR300 million owed to Hellenic Shipyards – remained outstanding. The Greek Ministry of Defence (MoD) previously rejected claims that it had defaulted on the contracts.
TKMS subsidiary Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) built the first Type 214 submarine, Papanikolis, at its shipyard in Kiel, Germany, and offered the boat for acceptance in 2006. It was refused by the Greek MoD, which claimed the boat did not perform to requirements. Papanikolis, however, was subsequently certified as seaworthy by the German MoD during sea trials off the coast of Norway in 2008.
The next three Type 214s were built in Greece by Hellenic Shipyards at Skaramangas between April 2007 and the end of 2008. The spokeswoman said that no decision has been made regarding the possibility of the four vessels being exported.
HYS, which had been operating for 50 years by 2008, was fully privatised in 2002 when it was taken over by HDW in consortium with Ferrostaal AG. It came under the aegis of TKMS in its present form following the 2005 merger of HDW and Thyssen Werften.
It was reported at the end of 2009 that ThysennKrupp was in discussions with more than one organisation regarding the sale of HSY.
ADM, a holding company based in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates, builds civilian ships as well as military and commercial vessels. It is jointly owned by Al Ain International Group (70 per cent) and Privinvest (30 per cent). The company’s order book exceeds EUR1 billion.
orko_8The article is below.
In fact the two statements do not fully contradict each other. DCNS did not deny the possibility of signing a contract with Greece in previous statement either. It just added that the possibility was decreased. In the most recent statement, they still d not deny the probability.
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2010
Jane’s Defence Weekly
DCNS clarifies Greek FREMM position
Gerrard Cowan JDW Europe Editor
London
French warship manufacturer DCNS has insisted that it could still sell six FREMM multimission frigates to the Hellenic Navy in a deal estimated at EUR2.2 billion (USD2.9 billion), despite Greece’s current debt problems.
” Greece is still a strong prospect for DCNS,” a spokesperson for the company told Jane’s . “DCNS has a co-operation agreement with the local partner Elefsis Shipyards and last year opened an office in Athens. Talks are still going on today.”
The comments followed a report in Jane’s on 25 February in which a DCNS official said that “the debt crisis obviously complicates the picture. Talks are still going on but we now see little chance of a positive outcome in the foreseeable future”.
Greece stated on 22 January that it had begun negotiations with France on a FREMM deal after excluding Dutch, German and Spanish yards from its competition to acquire six frigates. In April 2008 DCNS forged a partnership with Elefsis Shipyards that called for all six of the hulls to be built in Greece, while DCNS would essentially supply the rest, including propulsion and weapon system functionality.
Greece announced an austerity package of tax increases and budget cuts of USD4 billion on 3 March to tackle its debt crisis.
orko_8As for the Turkish birds, I must admit I’m a bit confused. Does the upgrade entail any changes in weaponry or radar? I understand updating navigation and if the cockpit if given some glass displays that’s certainly a welcome improvement, but what about pure combat capabilities? Are they being enhanced at all?
The radar remained afaik. As for the weapons, it is known that two different weapon systems, HGK (Hassas Gudum Kiti; Precision Guidance Kit a.k.a JDAM-a-la-turca) and Demet cluster bomb had been tested on F-4E’s. So it is safe to assume that in addition to classic and Paveway-series of bombs, these two can be used from F-4ETM’s.
No other new weapon systems are introduced, at least according to open sources.
orko_8edit: please delete 😮
orko_8Great photos! Thanks for sharing!
You have any other photos of this latest Phantom upgrade?
Any additional info?
The official web page of Turkish Air Force has some good photos:
http://www.hvkk.tsk.tr/PageSub/Calismalarimiz/Faaliyetler/innerPages/simsekprojesi.aspx
According to the press release:
1. The aim of the project is to keep the 16 F-4E’s which were not modernized under Terminator programme until 2014 – 2016 (the date of introduction of F-35 into Turkish Air Force)
2. CTVS (Cockpit Television Video System), AVTR (Airborne Video Tape Recorder), IFF Mod-4, new comms and nav systems integrated into the aircraft.
3. Cockpit layout modernized in order to accompany new CDU’s; they are most probably borught to a standard layout as with the Isik-modernized RF-4E’s, designated as RF-4ETM.
4. Ptototype flight tests concluded Dec 2009.
So, after this, the Phantom inventory of Turkish Air Force is:
50 x F-4E 2020 Terminator
16 x F-4ETM Simsek (Lightning)
18 x RF-4ETM Isik (Light)
“a couple of” x F-4E
orko_8Shark mouth is back!!
(credits to Balasagun for photos)
http://i49.tinypic.com/xncf81.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2uy67vt.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/zj8n68.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/efjaqe.jpg
The first two F-4E’s modernized under Simsek (Lightning) programme were delivered to 112nd Squadron with a ceremony. The project covers a total of 16 aircraft.
orko_8Greek debt crisis ‘may hinder’ DCNS FREMM deal
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2010
Jane’s Defence Weekly
J A C Lewis JDW Correspondent
Paris
French warship manufacturer DCNS has conceded that Greece’s debt problems have dashed its hopes of landing a contract to supply the Hellenic Navy with six FREMM frigates.
“The debt crisis obviously complicates the picture,” a DCNS official told Jane’s on 22 February. “Talks are still going on but we now see little chance of a positive outcome in the foreseeable future.”
Earlier in 2010 a senior DCNS official said that Greece was the strongest prospect for a sale worth an estimated EUR2.2 billion (USD2.9 billion), while defence figures in Paris were predicting that a memorandum of understanding on the FREMM deal could be penned when Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou visits Paris, expected by mid-2010.
However, because of revelations concerning the true extent of Greece’s debt, Athens has been downgraded to being just one prospect among others in DCNS’ drive to find export customers for FREMM. France has so far sold only one of the 5,000-ton frigates to Morocco, while Paris is in talks concerning FREMM with Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Algeria. The French Navy has ordered 11 of the new frigates.
Greece stated on 22 January that it had begun negotiations with France on FREMM after excluding German, Dutch and Spanish yards from its competition to acquire six frigates. In April 2008 DCNS forged a partnership with Elefsis Shipyards that called for all six of the hulls to be built in Greece, while DCNS would essentially supply the rest, including propulsion and weapon systems functionality.
orko_8Install a remote controlled 25 / 30mm turret on top of Mk13 base and a couple of 12.7mm remote stations elsewhere, add a decent sensor / CMC upgrade and you get a quite capable “LCSish” ship, fit for multinational antiterror / asymmetric surface operatios plus strong ASW capability.
I’m sure there would be not need for cutting as the launcher arm is a moving part (it rotates in the horizontal plane)
That is indeed the case, only the part of the launcher above the base is cut. Tha rest of the system, as well as under-deck magazines, electrical, mechanical etc connections retained. Cost of removing the whole system is said to be high and having adverse effect on stability, because of loss of substantial weight in the forward section. Check the attached photo:
orko_8AUstralians opted to keep Mk13 but use it with SM2 (which requires upgrades to the fire control system) and to add a single Mk41 for 32 ESSM, effectively doubling the number of SAMs on board. Clearly SM2 is longer range than SM1 and ESSM is similar in range to SM1. Turkey will likely follow the same route, though at this point it is not clear (at least to me it isn’t ) that Turkey will adopt SM-2. Genesis is mainly upgrade command and control systems rather than weapons, isn’t it?
Yes, it’s a combat management center modernization which combines all sensor data together and creates a comon tactical picture. For example with GENESIS, it’s possible to use Mk92 as a FCS for Phalanx against surface targets.
http://www.raytheon.com/businesses/rtnwcm/groups/public/documents/content/rtn09_bus_genesis_pdf.pdf
orko_8The last 4 out of 8 FFG-7’s of Turkish Navy are due to receive CMC modernization (GENESIS) plus SMART S Mk2 and Mk41 VLS for ESSM. It is also known that Turkish (plus Raytheon) and Pakistani navies are discussing the possibility of exporting GENESIS to future Pakistani FFG-7’s. If this occurs, there is a good chance that Pakistani FFG-7’s may receive GENESIS mod and maybe Mk41 modification with or instead of Mk13… Just thinking out loud…
orko_8any news regarding the Milgem and the Pakistani Navy?
Contract negotiations are underway, afaik.
orko_8I have a feeling that the underwing pods beneath moveable LERX’s might very well be housings for SAP-518 jammer systems.
It doesn’t make much sense to me to put a seperate underwing pod for AAM’s. It doesn’t fit into the “spirit of stealth” imho.
Image: http://www.ausairpower.net/KNIRTI-SAP-518-MiroslavGyurosi-1S.jpg
Description from Jane’s:
Russia’s Kaluga Scientific Research Institute of Radio Engineering (KNIRTI), the primary supplier of self-protection suites for Sukhoi aircraft, revealed a number of new electronic warfare (EW) technology enhancements for Su-27/30, Su-30MK and Su-32/34 aircraft at the MAKS 2009 airshow.
Next-generation systems on display included a single-pod centreline SAP 14 and a twin-pod SAP 518 EW jammer. The two systems are part of KNIRTI’s marketing effort to sell its EW catalogue to domestic and foreign customers for the Su-30MK-series fighters, which have been the strongest-selling model of the Su-27 derivatives. Su-30MK series aircraft are operated by China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Venezuela, Vietnam and Indonesia.
The SAP 14 and SAP 518 can be employed on two separate aircraft or one on platform, in the latter case giving it capabilities similar to the US Navy’s Grumman EA-6B Prowler EW platform. A KNIRTI representative told Jane’s : “The functionality of the two EW systems have been placed in separate containers in order to give the customer the maximum flexibility in developing a strike package that conforms to the threat environment that their aircraft are likely to be employed in.”
Accordingly, the two jamming pods cover two different frequency bands. “The SAP 14 covers all threats in the [NATO] D-F band and SAP 518 the G-J bands. By placing the SAP 14 in one large, centreline pod and the SAP 518 in two underwing or wingtip pods, an aircraft fitted with both can cover the entire spectrum of possible air-to-air and surface-to-air threats,” the representative said.
The configuration utilising both jammers is one of KNIRTI’s new options for the latest variants of the Su-30MK. The company stated that it has domestic and foreign orders for both of these systems.
Separately, Belarusian Baranovichi Aircraft Repair Plant (BARP) No 558 showed an improved version of its Satellit EW pod that was first seen two years ago at MAKS. The new version will be designated Satellit-M and has its internal components installed in a rectangular container rather than the conventional cigar shape used for most EW pods. This new pod can be installed on a weapons pylon so that the pod and a missile can be carried on the same stores station.
The chief difference between the two Belarusian pods is that the country’s military and intelligence services do not have the emitter identification data (EID) threat library possessed by most large defence industrial powers, such as the United States, EU nations, Israel, China and Russia. “For this reason, we decided to not use digital radio frequency memory (DRFM) techniques as the core of our design,” said one of the chief systems designers.
“Instead what we have used in the Satellit system is a method very similar to that offered by the Elettronica [ELT/568(V)2 solid-state self-protection] jammer that the Italians are proposing for the MiG-35 in India. We had some discussions with them some years ago and, although we did not end up co-operating with them, we have developed our jammer based on a similar concept.”
BARP engineers told Jane’s that the Satellit system was originally developed according to a Belarussian armed forces requirement and that there was an extensive period of testing and then refining of the design. “The software programming and digital interfaces were all developed by BARP, but the microelectronic components are purchased from a third country,” said one of the project engineers.
Currently, there are six units of the Satellit on order for use with Su-27 ‘Flanker’-series aircraft. BARP has also completed its own modification of the ‘Flanker’ that upgrades the cockpit and adds an air-to-surface capability, which the company designates the Su-27BM.
orko_8Neat video. So is this “Turkish JDAM” kit able to be fitted onto all the Mk-80 series weapons (i.e. MK-84, Mk-83, etc.) or is it restricted to the Mk-84 as seen in the video and photo?
AFAIK its for Mk84 only. I’m not sure if there are plans or projects for other Mk’s.
orko_8Also, any new photos of the Turkish JDAM would be appreciated as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhlEr47hzKI
Video from the tests of HGK (Hassas Gudum Kiti; Precision Guidance Kit) several years ago.
orko_8… And this very same country is planning to design, build and commission 12 (twelve) submarines in the coming decades. They sure will have to invest heavily into personnel recruitment, training and stuff, let alone maintaining a robust and stable operation & maintenance system.
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