orko_8There have been a lot of Chinese engineers attending research programs, MSc and PhD courses at IIAT, St Petersburg which is renowned for its research studies about WIG technologies. Wouldn’t be surprise if that one is one of the by-products of those cooperation.
orko_8There is “Improved Oyashio” class which have longer hull than standard Oyashio, because of integration of AIP. They were designed based on the experience gathered on a modified Harushio class sub (Asashio, IIRC). Imp. Oyashio must be ~84m, while Oyashio ~82m. Collins class were around 88m, if I’m not mistaken.
orko_8Alenia has been conducting a very successful extensive PR work in Turkey, constantly underlining the “Source Code transfer issue” as a “Mantra” which has the possibility, if not always a reality, to open doors for foreign contractors seeking ways to invest in Turkish defense industry. EF-2000 really seems to be a rational choice for TuAF, but there are also some hard opposition to the aircraft, mainly because of technical and economic reasons.
orko_8Well, apart from interdiction, CAS, interception, CAP, if you consider maritime surveillance, ASW, border control, fight against smuggling and terrorism as Air Force’s missions (some countries divide these missions along AF and Navy, but that is rather a political and a little bit military choice), even Ireland and NZ require Air Forces, I think.
[ignorant][superficial]But I think that Nepal is one of those countries which needs an Air Force least. Who would want to attack a country on the roof of mother earth from air anyway? :)[/superficial][/ignorant]
orko_8Wow orko, that’s an absolutely gorgeous photo of THK Phantoms. Where did you get it?
Check this out mate π
http://www.milint.com/categories.php?cat_id=37&sessionid=cd54515b3917cb220dec47031473c09a
orko_8Turkish F-4E’s from 132nd Hancer Squadron (“Dagger”, note the dagger art on the tail, above flag)
Phantoms Phorever, Phuck the rest π
orko_8Interesting. π
Can you tell me more about those F-4E/2020 ? I know they have been retrofited by Israel, but I don’t know with what equipment, and I was sure they still performed in Air defense missions with Medium range AAM (I though the TuAF used AMAAM missile ?)… :confused:
F-4E 2020 projects have some resemblences with Israeli Kurnass 2000 upgrade package. The biggest difference is radar, Turkish Terminators have Elta EL/M 2032 radar. Other modifications include airframe service life extension (by 6000 hours), structural optimizations, UHF/VHF, HOTAS, ElOp HUD, INS/GPS nav system, AVTR, MFD’s, Stores Management System, MIL-STD-1553B, ALQ-178(V)3 ECM as well as Elta EL/L 8233 ECM pod and ability to carry Popeye I guided missile.
F-4E 2020’s do not carry A/A missiles except AIM-9P/M for self defense.
orko_8
the hellenic airforce used the dagger until the early 80s i think. did the turkish air force use them as well, when was the last operational deuces retired..not encluding the drones.
Turkish Air Force used the following century series of aircrafts (service years in paranthesis)
F-102 Delta Dagger
F-102A: 40 (1968-1979)
TF-102A: 9 (1968-1979)
F-100 Super Sabre
F-100D: 106 (1958-1988)
F-100F: 53 (1958-1988)
F-100C: 111 (1972-1988)
F-104 Starfighter
F-104G: 287 (1963-1994)
TF-104G: 56 (1963-1994)
F-104S: 40 (1974 – 1994)
CF-104: 44 (1986-1994)
CF-104D: 6 (1986 – 1994)
orko_8That’s precisely as I understand it too, beleg: where are you guys getting all this stuff about any of the four final submissions for the tender being dropped? I’d be curious to see the sources, please π
I’d also be interested to see some/any official confirmation of the Ka-54 designation: the Turkish SSM and Kamov have both referred to the entry as the Ka-50-2 as recently as April 2006…….
Best regards
Steve Rush
As far as I know there isn’t an official designation as Ka-54. Ka-50-2 is the tandem double seat version of Ka-50 Hokum attack helicopter which was offered to South Korea, Malaysia (?) and several other countries, IIRC. Ka-50-2 “Erdogan” (Turkish word for “born fighter) is a “ATAKized”(*) version of Ka-50-2 which has Israeli avionics suite. Kamov and IAI made up a consortium and together offered Erdogan to Turkey, by using extensive Turkish-Israeli defense cooperation background.
Avionics suite of Ka-50-2 Erdogan were installed on a Ka-52 Alligator, No 061. Turkish attack helicopter pilots flew several hours with “061” and tested its avionics as well as live firings.
A-129 Mangusta has not been the very first favorite of Turkish Army, but Agusta offered good technology transfer opportunities. The current Mangusta upgrade (A-129CBT, if I’m not mistaken) is rather exceptional, but we do not know the latest opinion of army. A lot of people here in Turkey have been skeptical about it, including myself π
*: “ATAK” is the official Turkish name of the helicopter contest, “Taarruz ve Taktik Kesif Helikopteri Projesi” (Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopter Project)
orko_8Turkey has been building an extensive air defense network, part of overall NCW (Network Centric Warfare) system. Several elements of this network include Boeing 737 Peace Eagle AWACS (similar to Australia’s WedgeTail), mobile 3D radars, TAFICS and TASMUS C4ISR infrastructure, Atilgan & Zipkin PMADS (a version mounted on Fennek 4×4 has been sold to Netherlands), and current upgrade project of F-16C/D aircraft with modern avionics and A/A (as well as A/G) weapon systems such as AIM-9X and AIM-120C-5 missiles. One of the major gaps in this body is high altitude air defense systems. Turkey has more-tahn-obsolote Nike Hercules missiles in her inventory which have nothing of valuable use but firing them into the sky for “training” π
Current threat environment dictates Turkey an intensive air defense system against cruise & ballistic missiles as well as modern combat aircraft. In addition Turkey has vast geographic area to protect, that’s why the new high altitude air defense system must be cost-effective and “multi-mission”. Arrow II has always been favorite of Turkey’s policy makers because of its benefits in defense industry cooperation with US and Israel as well as tactical + strategical boost and political power. But, it is a reality that Arrow II does not meet the above mentioned criteria.
By the way, I must add that Murad Bayar, Undersecretary of Defense Industries expressed that Turkey is interested in procuring “High Altitude Air Defense Systems”, not only “Anti Ballistic Missile System”. He said that this new system will be part of Turkey’s integrated air defense system, but it is nearly impossible to create an unpenetrable umbrella against ballistic missiles. This also gives us hint that Arrow II does not have much chance.
As said, S-300 stands good chance, but there comes the integration problem. Turkey, as being a NATO member, built up all her defense infrastructure according to NATO standards. Integrating a Russian missile system into this network may increase cost, delay service entry date and many other industrial workshare problems, I guess. If those can be solved, it won’t be a surprise that Turkey selects S-300.
Regards
orko_8Turkish contribution to Open Skies program, a locally modified CN-235M-100:
The aircraft has below sensors:
3 x KS-87B framing cameras
1 x KS-116A panoramic camera
1 x AN-AAD-5 Infrared Line Scanninc Device
3 x HV-C20A video cameras and a recorder
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/guncel/diger_faaliyetler/asa/resim/15.jpg
Mission Planning Display:
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/guncel/diger_faaliyetler/asa/resim/17.jpg
Manuel/Automatic Sensor Control
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/guncel/diger_faaliyetler/asa/resim/18.jpg
Mission Brief Display
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/guncel/diger_faaliyetler/asa/resim/19.jpg
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/guncel/diger_faaliyetler/asa/resim/24.jpg
MC/SO Consoles
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/guncel/diger_faaliyetler/asa/resim/25.jpg
http://www.tsk.mil.tr/guncel/diger_faaliyetler/asa/resim/38.jpg
For further information: http://www.tuaf.mil.tr/activities/asa/01.htm
orko_8It should be noted that RfI for FCA project were answered by Lockheed Martin (F-16 Block 50) and Eurofighter (Typhoon). As a Level-III partner of JSF consortium, Turkey most probably will divide her requirement between EF-2000 and F-35. The decision for FCA project and Turkey’s order in JSF will be realised until the end of this year. I don’t think that this will be a selection of one of the candidates, both a combination of both.
orko_8Turkish – French relations have not been quite warm for a couple of years, because of several political issues. That’s why it was no surprise not to see Rafale to see in the RfI list published by SSM (“Savunma Sanayi Mustesarligi” – “Undersecretariat for Defense Industries)
Turkish Air Force currently operates 216 F-16C/D Block30/40/50 Fighting Falcon’s, 52 F-4E 2020 Terminator’s and around 80 F-4E Phantom II’s. The latter are almost at the end of their service lives (FY66/67/68). There is an ongoing project to modernize a second batch of 48 F-4E’s, but the content is not clear yet, maybe it will be abandoned, maybe number of A/C’s to be modernized will be reduced and / or modified.
TuAF obviously needs more than 100 new generation aircraft, but this number will be enough for the urgent need to suplement the air force, with the help of CCIP modernizaton programme.
Under CCIP a first batch of 117 F-16’s will be modernized. There is an option for the remaining fleet.
It seems that Turkey is using EF-2000 against JSF F-35 to get more technological and industrial share (and vice versa, keeping in mind Δ°taly’s generous offer to Turkey to become fifth full partner of Eurofighter consortium)
Regards
orko_8There was a Soviet project in the late 40’s or early 50’s which was a submarine LST able to carry a large number of trucks, APC’s and T-34’s plus 4 or 6 light fighters (Ilyushin or Polikarpov, I cannot recall).(*) It was a daring and sound project for its time, but progress in missile and guidance technologies ruled out the necessity for such movements. It is possible to hit a target effectively from very long distances, without being detected. A submarine has very limited space, thus ability to carry a sufficient number of fighters is nearly impossible. Development in UAV / UCAV technology, however, can make submarines carry some A/C’s for special purposes possible.
(*): It was in Norman Polmar’s “Cold War Submarines” book.
orko_8breaks my heart to see them go
100% agreed. IMHO F-14 was the last aircraft with … errmm… charisma.. or spirit should I say?
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