Puffadder“I’ve been looking for quite awhile as well. This is about the best top of the wing image I’ve found, but I can’t see any fences, just the wing fold hinges”
There are no fences but early on they found that the airflow over and around the wing hinge was being disrupted so they designed a shroud of some sort to smooth the airflow. I think this is what many are actually referring to when they talk of fences.
“Puffadder: Since when is Flight International more accurate than the GAO ? I suspect that article to have been printed in time for a trade fair… Distributed on Boeing’s stand.. “
Oh my little Pomme Frite how my heart cries out for you as you wonder in the lost wilderness. Some things never change on this forum. Quite wonderful.
“AMRAAMs can be launched at separate targets with no limit, although i would think this is not true at range since you do need that data link for that. The French guy will only tell you about those puny MICAs…”
Hi Vortex. I´ll evade your heavy “gone ballistic” non manouvring AIM-120 while you`ll be breaking into a sweat trying to break lock on my tvc manouvring MICA which you won’t know has been launched because my waveform remains constant. Check your ejector seat. You’re gonna need it. 🙂 🙂
PuffadderFrankvw is horrible- discuss.
The F18E is a fine plane.
Don’t listen to Frankvw.
Check the archives. I posted excerpts from a test flight from a Flight International issue some years ago. The F18E has few supporters. I’m one of them, and I’m right- as usual 😀
Puffadder“Better book your ticket for September Puffy… The M2K seat is waiting for you…”
You’d better stock up on Pilavas and sparkling mineral water. Then we’ll both enjoy a balmy Athens evening contemplating the superior Dassault product line and all those gorgeous Greek chix 🙂
My 1/72 scale Typhoon voodoo doll is full of 6 inch nails. :diablo:
“Since when does EADS own Dassault?”
EADS doesn’t own Dasault per se but it does have a stake in the company. The Rafale /Typhoon “in house” competition is not good. I think the Typhoon should be cancelled- I really do.
Puffadder“On May 27th 2003, a contract was signed between Airbus Military and OCCAR (Organisation Conjointe de Coopération en Matière d’Armement), representing Belgium, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Spain, Turkey, and United Kingdom for a total of 180 aircraft. The industrial programme was formally launched on May 31st 2003. This will lead to a first flight in 2008 and a first delivery in 2009.”
Check out the following page
http://www.airbusmilitary.com/commitment.html
Aahh Airbus!
PuffadderHi guys, giasou ´tasma
I beat my head repeatedly against the wall when I saw this on TV recently.
More F 16´s for the PA? Given that the previous government basically applied “creative” accounting methods to achieve Euro convergence I think that the Typhoon Inc. partners are going to be p**d off if Athens takes our tax Euros to buy more planes from the US.
Tasma, why has the Typhoon deal resurfaced at all- I thought (well,hoped, prayed, applied voodoo magic) that this idea had died the death that we all believe is richly deserved- right guys? :diablo:
Puffadder“Thanks Steve, that does clear it up. Still, it looks like an awful lot of weight far ahead of the CoL to me (which doesn’t mean diddly squat of course, considering i’m not an engineer ).”
I have to agree. Although the Typhoon’s canards have more a lot more authority than do Rafale’s canards, I cannot see that load being carried. Mk 83 and Mk84 type loads should be possible, but Storm Shadow? I don’t think so. Perhaps Typhoon Inc. will develop a 2000 litre + centre fuel tank to offset Storm Shadow carriage
PuffadderPerfection
Aahh Dassault!
PuffadderCan anyone think of a good reason why Norway should not be under six feet of water?
🙂
aahh Dassault!
PuffadderIndia may buy Qatari Dash Fives
Hi guys.
I just lifted the following from the BBC website. This story started about a year or two ago but it seemed to be a bit iffy. Looks like things might be firming up. If it does actually come to pass, India might be an attractive customer for future M2K upgrades. I suppose it will just be a matter of time before the Israelis start offering their own “dash something” upgrade to all first gen M2K operators.
India moves for used Mirage jets
India’s defence ministry has been authorised by the cabinet to buy 12 used French-built Mirage 2000 jet fighters from Qatar.
It is part of a massive defence purchase package worth more than $700m.
The move comes days after the US announced it was going ahead with sales of its F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, despite opposition from India.
Washington has also offered advanced combat planes to India, an offer that Delhi is considering.
Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee said his ministry was yet to negotiate the price of the Mirage jets.
He said the cabinet had also authorised a number of other military purchases.
Security committee
“Eighty to 87% of life exists in the planes,” Mr Mukherjee told journalists, referring to the Qatari Mirage jets.
Authorisation to negotiate the sale was given by the cabinet committee on security (CCS) in the capital Delhi on Tuesday.
Mr Mukherjee said the CCS has also cleared the acquisition of 11 Dornier 228 aircraft at a cost of more than $150m to strengthen maritime surveillance.
Plans also include the purchase of nine offshore patrol vessels for the India navy and upgrades for Sea Harrier planes.
We may yet see MICA vs. AIM 120 one day.
PuffadderRafale Hardpoints
Hi JW, SteveO and all you Typhoonettes (aka. Lost Souls) :diablo:
I hope the attachment is legible.
A minor correction is necessary. If you look at that part of the table that depicts the laser guided bombs you´ll see that five 400kg bombs can be carrried. Those five hardpoints can also carry 1000kg bombs or SCALPs ie. five*1000kg bombs or five SCALPs.
“the currently non existant A2G capabilities of the Rafale and Typhoon who only hold “potential”
F18, you´re a silly little hamburger, aren’t you?
What they cannot yet do is transmit course correction and target updates to GPS and INS steered weapons. They cannot yet accept target handoffs from other platforms. Most other planes also cannot do any of this yet. This notion that both planes are completely incapable of dropping anything is ludicrous. Both aircraft, Typhoon and Rafale can take off right now and go drop bombs. Accurately. All the standard HUD targetting modes are already programmed. I could, for example, load a couple of Mk 84s onto my Rafale, load your coordinates into the autopilot and visit you. Steve and JW can do pretty much the same thing with a Typhoon( I don’t know who’ll fly and who will be WSO). Obviously I can do it more elegantly 😀
PuffadderHi USS
I ‘ve spoken to M2K C (S4 aircraft) pilots who flew against Luftwaffe MiG 29. They considered them to be most challenging. The older MiG 29 flys better in that part of the envelope where the M2K flys well. However the cockpit integration of the M2K is far better.
Obviously, the MiG 29 currently being offered is a lot more modern and more capable.
You should consider the longevity of the airframe. The engine (as you mentioned) is “mature”- it was “mature” at introduction. No fleetwide groundings, no modifications- nothing. It just works. The MiG airframe is not that strong and given it’s size doesn’t carry that much. Make mine a Mirage 🙂
PuffadderHi Fonk
multo thanx for that “mother” of all posts (did you type all of it) !
Hi JW a belated happy Easter to you and yours.
Max Payload?
Hmm. My empty weights are as follows: Rafale C =9400kg, Rafale B =9600kg and the M weighs in at 10000kg. Thusly, a C with 1.5 times it’s own weight would weigh in at 23500 kg. I have actually seen that figure (as an AUW) thrown about. However, this requires all hardpoints to be loaded to their theoretical maximum bearing load- utterly unrealistic.
I would like to advance the argument beyond the “my jet is bigger than your jet” thing.
The Rafale has a better hardpoint layout than the Typhoon- it simply has. The Rafale can actually carry 3* 2000 litres external, two SCALPs and a whack of MRAAMs. It has actually been flown agressively with this loadout. The engine intakes are very simple to remove and they can be enlarged very easily should a thrust increase actually be implemented. I think you’ll be nodding your head sagely in agreement when I say that Typhoon Inc. are going to have a problem enlarging the Typhoon’s intake should the need arise. To wit: the F16.
Allow me to repeat my mantra that has run through all of my posts (check the archive) over the years: the Rafale’s multirole advantage over the Typhoon is a lot bigger than is Typhoon’s ACM advantage over the Rafale.
Typhooon is going to work well- Rafale is going to work a little weller.
Puffadder“The HN has already expressed interest on the Scalp Naval missile too. Perhaps this would give us some pointers as to the next major combattant choices for the HN (i.e. Horizon / FREMM frigates).”
Hi Dienekes, Exocet and SCALP Naval aren´t that platform specific. Would the Horizon be the most suitable for the HN? Greek shipyards have for years been collaborating with other leading shipyards- surely they have the expertise to develop a vessel specifically suited to the HN´s needs.
PuffadderHi Kovy
you’re probably not far off. However I’m not convinced. I don’t see any dust in the left photo- nor any heat wave emanating from the engines. Perhaps I am expecting too much of the images. I still believe that the speed is around 200 kts, give or take. 21Ankush assures us that these are in fact stills from a video that he has watched. So, the camera man, using wet film I assume (mid ’80s, yes, no, possibly) manages to get everything in focus- everything- the lucky bystanders some way in the background, the signboard next to the taxiway junction, the hangars. Could you do that at a Formula 1 race. I dunno.
PuffadderI do not believe that these photos are real. If you take a look at the tailfin outline it looks like someone feathered the background image, this is also noticable below the belly and around the ventral fins.
What’s the minimum safe airspeed of a Jaguar- 130-150 Kts perhaps?. In the images I don’t see any flaps lowered- that would indicate that this guy blasted across the airbase apron at probably somewhere around 200 kts- at about 20 metres altitude with a most fortunate photographer situated on top of a hangar- or something.
Pilots do fly this low, but I cannot imagine any pilot stupid enough to do this over his airbase. A too slow reaction and this guy creams into a hangar or flightline and totals half his country’s airforce.
Sign In
