If we can put aside the anti-US flaming for a moment (I know some of you are not capable of anything more than just a moment…:D)

To address the orginal topic….it’s been several days since the attacks on Gaza began…

Has there been ANY move by Israel towards Iran?

Or is it possible that the whole point of this thread was to allow a forum for anti-Israel rants?:rolleyes:

Not from my part i can assure you. If you read my input, you will note that i support Israels right to self defence. Having said that, and leaving political rants aside, theres been some good points on both sides of the argument.

I still state however, that the removal of Hamas would also remove a thorn in Israels side, for any future attack planned on Iran.

Israeli air strikes, which covered everything without discrimination, increase the popularity of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and outside and never failed to stop fire rocket, about 400 rockets have been fired so far, according to Israeli sources, and estimates there are about 8000 rocket still has Hamas
Sufficient 80 another day of the bombing . Does the Israeli air force can resolve the battle from the air , and this is not unexpected, or Israel will have to send ground troops with the more loss of others a not acceptable to Israel?

The ground option is not really an option. They have to put boots on the ground. All the F-15s and F-16s in the world are not going to stop Hamas firing home made rockets into Israel.

These things can be simply left in a safe place days before use, fired then off they run. All Isreal is doing at the moment is making a lot of holes in the hope it can eradicate the HAMAS leadership.

If Isael wishes to end these roicket attacks, then the only military option is the creation of a buffer zone in which they can launch rapid responce raids further into Gaza.

It may prove costly, but you dont make a decision to go to war knowing it wont be, so i think they are prepared for that.

I’d agree were it not for the fact there is no winning goal. Rocket attacks have gone up, not down. In an area with two thousand years of conflict the only thing a war has ever proved is that violence begets more violence, creates more hatred, and perpetuates the cycle. I’m not blaming Israel for this; as you say, most of the time recently at least the conflicts they’ve faced are not ‘their fault’ in that a ceasefire is agreed to and then broken by a radical group who deserve whatever fate they get so long as it’s not a happy one. My point was this and only this; there is no war in which any side is totally right, and certainly not one that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of civilians for attacks which, in comparison, are nothing.
The only way I can see is to deny the cycle of violence a chance to propagate by rushing THEL or similar into the field to stop rocket attacks, and using special forces instead of laser-guided bombs. While I appreciate the problems presented are immense (and that really is too delicate a word) and pounding Gaza with LGBs is much more tactically attractive, in the strategic cycle of war-ceasefire-terror-war surely anything’s worth a shot after this long, and this many deaths.
In short, Israel cannot pulverise Hamas or any other radical group into submission. It’s just not possible. Terror thrives on disadvantage and hatred and all pulverisation does is create more hatred and more disadvantage, no matter who you kill in the process.

Why do i foresee some kind of occupation here. We all know that when Israel pulls back, she will again be attacked. So what other option is she left, other than the implementation of some sort of a Buffer zone?

Regime change?

to whom….Fatah?

Remove Hamas and you proberly signal to Hezbolluh that you have learnt lessons, and that you have the political will to remove them aswell…dispite what the hypocritical UN says.

I dont see no way out for the Israelis other than to carry on until they deem theyve removed or lessened the problem. Hamas wont stop, because their aim is the removal of the state of Israel, and peace does not fit in with that viewpoint.

And what on Earth is wrong with targetting the Hamas leader? Damn fine shot! He’s a terrorist that target people only, the scum of the Earth and there is no room for them to breathe good air. (1)
The people killed by Israel or any other military unit are not intended because these days, (a) There are rules (b) it is a complete waste of a very expensive munition. LGB is circa $300k each. Free fall Irons are about $25-50k.
The scum hide amongst their own people. The scum are picked out and targetted. It is up to the people to reject the hiding place.
And please don’t make your opinions off the news, every day we see the pictures from Gaza only. Twisted and corrupted news reporting, even from the once reliable BBC. Is it is supposed to make us feel sorry for anyone that Israel targets? Not in my name. Israel continues to do no wrong in this melee.

(1) Terrorists that target specific Governments are slightly less in the scum ratings, after all they are aiming to kill politicians. Gut Fawkes being a prime good early example.

Its called being objective.

When its israeli civilians being blasted to bits on Busses or in restaurents, its sad, buts its Israeli policy that causes it.

When Isreal responds to such inhuman acts, its aggression and every little commie, islamist egg head, and pinko deranged nut starts burning the isreali and US Flags, shouting anti semetic propaganda.

Funny how they are allowed to protest here, since a free protest is unheared of in Gaza or Syria, or Iran or wherever in the arab states. You look at their placards, and you see Workers socialist party ect. Free speech and marxism?

I must be missing something:eek:

The BBC is full of these pinkos. If it the BNP is protesting and screaming anti semetic crap, they go mental. Its this sort of biased reporting that fuels the conflict, and sows the seeds of hate.

The BBC has as much blood on its hands as the protaganists:(

Like I said before as time goes by Iran’s hand is getting stronger and stronger. And the stronger one becomes, the more daring he will be. And I do not believe that Israel will ever hold talks with a holocaust denying regime. And the moderates returning to power in iran may have to wait a long time, israel may not want to risk waiting that long and letting Iran get nukes.

By the way I have asked this question before and no body answered, how do Iran’s Airforce at the moment compare to Israels.

It doesent.

Trouble is for the Isrealies though, is that they will be operating at the edge of their range, and over hostile countries, unless they head out over Turkey. So bringing all assets together for that strike is tricky.

They wont get a free second follow-up strike, so the initial srike has to work.

Like i said before, im very interested in this Iranian financed deal of couple of years ago, in updating the Syrian Air Force. If these Aircraft have been paid for and delivered, then do the Iranians have access to them?

Iranian Pilots do use the MiG-29 for instance.

Whenever Ahmadinejad opens his mouth, it means very little. He doesn’t control the Iranian military. He can talk all day about bombing Israel but until the guys in charge give him the power to act on his words he’s just posturing for votes next year.

This may be very true, but Irans actions in both Southern Lebanon and the Palistinian territories, plus its active role within Iraq and Afghanistan tells us what we need to know, regarding its military. A military that will sooner or later have access to a Nuclear device.

We can all only guess at what the reasons really are, or whether they would actually use it. The only fact is, they will have it, and we will either have to live in a world that trusts them with it, or deal with it.

To be honest, i think the immeadiate risk is Pakistan. There, the Taliban have a hold, have sympathisers within the military, and god forbid any islamist goverment takes hold there, we may have the nightmare of all our fears.

That perfectly applies to those who voted for Bush, as well. They took the related risk of voting a radical and they, too, need to count with consequences, even for their children… Remember, the same way you see HAMAS, many see current US government..

My 0.02 only..

Can anyone blame the people of Gaza for voting for Hamas?. After years of self interest and corruption, they were promised a way out, and fell for it. But the alternative is Fatah, and do we really wish to go down that route again?

Isreal has every right to defend itself, pre-emptively if needed, but the real blame for the deaths of innocents, lies in Damascus and Tehran. The palistinians are merely pawns in a bigger game:mad:

I am not claiming two different things. My first post is in the context of acception of Israel as a State i.e. Israeli state of pre-1965. Whereas my second post is indicating to the historical unjust made to the Palestinians i.e. the creation of the Israel through a unilateral act of the then UK/US dominant UN. Infact the Resolution 181 was only passed to give legitimacy to the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Which by all standards was an illegal action of the British Empire.

I was wondering when the blame would come down on us:eek: Blame the Americans, shifty lot they are…..all Mcdonnalds and no brains. We had the sense to let them go their own way some time ago….and we aint looked back since:D

Joking apart…..

Whom started firing Rockets into Isreali civilian areas?. They were warned to stop, but carried on. They were warned again, and again they continued….

Sorry, but if you pick a fight against someone bigger and stronger, then you are going to get hurt, especially as they are acting in self defence, and so far…some restraint.

Now could you tell me what the paymasters of Hamas are doing whilst they bring destruction down on the people they are supposed to care about?

Living it up in Tehran and Damascus.