GOKONECOCKPIT CONDITION
It is true it is outside, but during no usage times it is wrapped up tight, in all directions, not sure where you got the story of damage on demolition, we had an extension built, but nothing near the cockpit.
IN CONSIDERATION
A visitor examined the damage to the flat section of the canopy (itself a replacement) some time ago now and on asking was openly informed that it had occurred when the building was altered – builders dropped something on it. The damage is to the flat panel on top of the canopy so very obvious but not in the photos provided, while the glass has several cracks with little bits missing. I’m sure this isn’t major but bidders should be aware of it.
Corrosion was freely pointed out on one of the panels to the visitor who noted the ingress of water and snow, due to the fact that for long periods the cockpit sadly hasn’t always been covered over. This can be seen by the faded paint and rust on the yellow frame which would have been covered too by the all-round cover that has been given. Some of the instruments are corroding also and no repair has been made to the missing skin on the port canopy hinge area, so that ingress will have been a problem here.
I think its fair to mention that in all the general buying talk to date there has been little comment on the condition of this item and some other observations as shown up by the pictures would therefore be correct, and to any bidders in particular.
It has never received any restoration and you don’t need to be a CSI to see that maintenance has been rare if at all in recent years, from the evidence of the shots. The faded black paint at the front with corrosion evident and chipped paint is testimony to the lack of regular cover it seems to have lacked over the last 7 years at least, during which time it has hardly ever been used due to being too out of date.
If regularly cosseted and wrapped all-round it would not be so worn at the front alone, and shows it should ideally have been sold off when its air show days were over following a well-known shot of it at Southend Air Show in 2003.
The lack of maintenance has combined with ingress / sweating as evidenced from the cockpit interior and exterior black at the front of the windscreen. You can also see streaked dirt clearly left by rain on the black canopy paint by previous lack of cover and general cleaning on the side-on shot, while the port canopy frame paintwork is cracking along the rim and other areas. The stb’d inner paint is corroding in the horse-shoe shot and the front shot from stb’d shows the port inner locking mechanism clearly corroded too.
When it has been wrapped it has unfortunately not been cared for or opened for long periods as seen by the leaves/twigs gathered at the floor of the red protective, while mild corrosion streaks in the aluminium additionally confirm that it was some time since its previous airing.
The bare aluminium is dull with darkening around the screw heads also. All this erosion of its original condition could have been arrested with some basic TLC and spraying of the usual, or perhaps an even occasional polish or rub-in of light machine oil would have helped too. Besides the black paintwork peeling around the top of the nose there is mild corrosion around the side window edging.
Having said all this I’d like to thank the seller for the honest shots shown to date and the offer to show any requests, but any successful bidder(s) should be aware that when many thousands secure this exhibit then some time and further expense will still be needed to get this lady back to her former condition, due to a lack of basic maintenance extending over various periods of neglect.
This is in addition to making an allowance (especially if buying from over-priced online companies/individuals instead of at aeromarts) for funding a few missing boxe(s) including the missing sight/radar units when they come to consider making any bids. Her current condition would have obviously been improved if the unit could have released her from her long tenure some time ago.
GOKONEXD875 COCKPIT PICTURES
I’ve arranged for 3 photos of the cockpit of Valiant XD875 to be added to this gallery – photographs taken by NAM’s original Archivist the late Dave Collins during the cockpit’s brief stay at Newark!!
Thanks for that link, I’ve also added some here from a detailed cockpit session on ‘857 that I needed to shoot for future reference on my own flight deck. These were taken sometime before she departed and may have been at the Fest, I can’t remember the year now.
GOKONECADET TRANSPORT
I wish we did have an easy access MT agreement.
each ATC sqn is an individual charity, although we are parented with RAF Henlow, which is 85 miles away, or colchester barracks MT pool 43 miles away, which we can obtain vehicles.
For the everyday function of transporting my cadets to local sports of expedition purposes, we have to provide our own funded transport. also added that only uniformed staff are able to take and apply for the MOD FMT600 , our civilian intructors (who are the majority of my staff cant drive the MT pool transport.
This shows the usual stifling rules and regs that many forces personnel people have to work with rather than around, and with the cuts in general that the forces are now suffering too, while we pander to nuclear countries like Pakistan (who have more millionaires than us) in trusting (unlike the Yanks recently) that foreign countries will be more helpful to us if supposedly rubbed up the right way. What’s this got to do with that Charlie Chaplin movie they just found anyway?
GOKONEOUTSIDE COCKPIT?
Which raises the point about how sad it is that we are in an age where an ATC unit has to sell something that it has cherished and looked after for long time just so that it can buy some transport.
I was told that its been outside for 10 years and the rain does get in the mechanism at the back. Not sure how the storage history works out but unfortunately the canopy suffered some damage on top when some builders materials fell onto the canopy when some demolition was going on. Not sure why it hadn’t been moved away to a safe area at the time but it still looks OK from the side. It is a good cause and it would be good to go into a museum for the future.
GOKONEVALIANT COCKPIT XD875, INVERNESS
There’s a Valiant cockpit at the Inverness museum. I tried to sit in the pilot’s seat, but alas it hadn’t been designed for persons of my (ahem) size, so I had to be content to look in from the ladder…
For cockpit lovers, there are lots to climb into at Inverness. Strangely I fitted nicely into a Lightning.
Yes, the Inverness one is the cockpit of XD875 as previously at Newark Air Museum, I’ve attached a design listing of the Valiant cockpit survivors which also includes the only complete airframe, XD818 which is now on display at RAF Cosford in the Cold War Museum.
XD875 has the distinction of being the last Valiant ever built with a first flight of 27.8.57. She was truck off charge on 9.11.62 after an accident, with her nose being fortunately saved after the aircraft was scrapped at RAF Wittering.
GOKONEWB215: VALIANT B.MK.1 2ND PROTOTYPE
[B]Design Certificate and Relevant Documents
Some interesting facts & figures on this important 1st V-Bomber 2nd Prototype
Taken from the Victor Association Newsletter June 2004
A copy of the above document gives some excellent reference for dates and figures on this milestone RAF aircraft (the first RAF 4-jet bomber) which set many trail-blazing firsts both in technical terms as well as its actual achievements. The first amendment is listed as 16th October 1954 and the overall document is broken down into 3 sections:
1- Design Clearance M.O.S. Form R.D.A. 13-
2- Limitations & Special Notes-
3- Weights & C.G. Data-
SECTION 1 [COLOR=”DarkRed”] DESIGN CLEARANCE M.O.S. FORM R.D.A. 13[/COLOR]
The design certificate from the M.O.S. (Ministry of Supply) gives the following:
‘VICKERS-ARMSTRONGS ‘VALIANT’ TYPE 709. 2ND PROTOTYPE’. Spec No: B9/48 Appendix “A” No. 1815
Contract: 6/Aircraft/10113/CB6(c).
OBJECT OF CONTRACT:
‘Development Work Engine Type: R.R. Avon R.A.14.’ The aircraft is then certified for carrying out flight tests in allotment to A.A.E.- ‘Authority is hereby given for these flight tests to proceed with Messrs. (Jock) Bryce and (Brian) Trubshaw as pilot from Wisley to Boscombe Down airfield’.
The Type Record No. VTR.660 is followed by Loading & Flight Restrictions re maximum & all up weights for :
(a) Normal Take-Off 120,000lbs (all forms of flying)
(b) Overload Take-Off 122,500lbs (gentle manoeuvres)
(c) Normal landing 95,000lbs
(d) Overload landing 120,000lbs
Datum information, landing gear pressures, flight envelope info, pressurisation and fuel specifications follow on the interior of the design certificate, including a maximum altitude attained of 47,000 ft, dated 1st June 1954. Design Clearance documents in Oct/Sept of that year give ’clearance for low speed power off stalls to be carried out on the above aircraft at altitudes not exceeding 15,000ft, the latter clearance increasing the altitude limitations to 40,000ft, while applying the following restrictions:’
BUFFET & STALL TESTS
‘Whilst high mach numbers and stalls are being investigated on production aircraft, clearance is given for the above aircraft to fly with the following speed limitations up to an acceleration of one excess ‘g’. Flights should not be allowed to continue under conditions which give rise to buffet, and no stalls are to be undertaken.’
Clearance for modifications to the nose wheel anti-shimmy friction damper were approved on 22 Sept 1954, while buffet considerations were still being investigated. An amendment dated 19 Aug 1954 stated that ‘Flights should not be allowed to continue under conditions which give rise to buffet except that associated with stalls under 1g conditions. If due to unforseen circumstances buffet is experienced, the speed should be reduced immediately by closing the throttles in preference to pulling the nose up, as this would increase the acceleration and the buffet may become prohibitive.’
AVON CALLING
An appendix to the design certificate dated 1 Jun 1954 gave guidance for engine re-lighting under flight test purposes only. This specified that
‘re-lighting should only be attempted on these engines at altitudes up to 35,000ft. and at speeds not in excess of 200 knots A.S.I. No second attempt to re-light any engine shall be made except in an emergency. When a second attempt is made a 15-minute drainage period with the flaps lowered to 25° must be observed to ensure that any excess fuel resulting from an abortive attempt is drained away’.
MAIN CHASSIS ACTUATORS
Other tests saw the nose chassis actuators cleared for 150 cycles on 1 June 1954, along with Flap Gearbox (450 ‘down’ selections) and chassis door actuators (150 cycles). Generator brush wear indicators also had to be checked by the flight crew at least every 20 minutes.
JET PIPES
Convergent/divergent jet pipe nozzles were fitted to jet pipes on the inboard engines with inspection of pipes and nozzles specified after every 5 hours running. Jet pipe shrouds on the outboard engines were extended by 2 ins to improve engine bay cooling.
PROTOTYPE FLAP RESTRICTIONS
WB215 had a specific procedure for flap retraction that was confined to prototype aircraft.; when the flaps were selected “Up” on the main system the flaps trailed approx. 2” and in order to get the flaps fully “Up” it was necessary to engage the emergency “Up” system for the final flap retraction.
FLAP REVERSAL
in order to avoid damage to the flap operating system, ie: motor and gear-box, it was essential that the following cockpit drill be carried out when operating the flaps:
‘When selecting flaps “UP” or “DOWN” the flap operating lever is held in either the “UP” or “DOWN” position and the flap movement is observed on the flap guage. If during the course of either raising or lowering the flaps the pilot requires to reverse the direction of the flap movement, the flap lever must be returned to the centre position until the flaps come to rest – approx. 2 seconds. After this period the required flap setting can be selected.’
It was stated that this restriction would be removed on production aircraft by the introduction of approved modifications.
PROTOTYPE POWER CONTROL UNITS
A good example of the minutia of instructions that the crew had to absorb and remember can be found in this instruction alone re the prototype power control units (PFCU’s): ‘1. Starting not to be attempted at ambient temperatures below 0°c. 2. The unit is cleared for operation in ambient temperatures between + 70°C and -40°C. Note: These ambient temperatures apply to temperatures inside the fuselage adjacent to the unit.’
SECTION 2 LIMITATIONS & SPECIAL NOTES
V.A. Ltd Weybridge, Surrey – 1st June 1954
VALIANT B.MK.1. PROTOTYPE WB.215
‘The above aircraft, which is the second prototype Valiant, contains a number of features which it is considered require
special attention during the course of ground handling and flying. It is also considered necessary that the A.A.E.E. assessment
should be made with the full knowledge of our Test Pilots’ experience and in the light of the differences which occur between the prototype and production aircraft’.
Initial Flight Reports 196-226 allowed V.A. to supply the following statement on items considered to warrant special attention.
1. Engine Starting: is normally carried out using a 45 k.w.generator ground truck. All aircraft are protected from short circuit current failures by a 300 amp. fuse which is fitted in the
starter circuit and is situated in the electrical servicing bay above
the nosewheel. No internal starting is catered for on this aircraft.
2. Aileron hand Loads: A trial installation using spring feel and adjustable stops is under investigation and may be introduced on production aircraft when proven. This modification will be offered to A.A.E.E. for assessment prior to the fitment in the production line.’
Pic 1: WB215 in flight
Pic 2: A shot from the rear of the certificate – the pilots’ main panels and controls
on the Valiant flight deck, taken inside the Vickers works at Weybridge
GOKONEBUYERS & VALUATIONS
[QUOTE=Jack Ruskin;1765902]Maybe. Maybe not. Karl’s award winning Canberra was up for £4,000 the other day and yet got no bids. On the other hand, WK122 is doing very well indeed from a £2K start. In fact it’s gone past the original ‘Buy It Now’ price and is currently £2,852…
Karl’s tow away display today WJ676
WK122 & trailer in need of TLC
Possibly buyers prefer a cockpit they can restore themselves ? That said, the Vulcan failed to meet reserve reaching £1,600. I guess it boils down to what someone’s prepared to pay, more than what it’s deemed to be worth by the owner perhaps ?
It varies really, some owners won’t part with anything less than what they feel something is worth and are prepared to sit on something if they feel they have to, we’ve seen that notably on silly ejector seat prices from some e-bay concerns that recycvle for long periods of time. The Harrier skeleton at the ‘Fest wasn’t worth £1,000 to many observers but the later eventual buyer for it wanted one and the owner was prepared to wait until he could find such a buyer, who would pay the price he wanted.
GOKONEHUNTER SIM COMMENT & PICS, COLTISHALL 2006
[QUOTE=MarkG;1766061]GOKONE, the Hunter in your photo is Tony Collins’ lovely F.1 – a regular visitor to Cockpitfest which was present again earlier this month.
The sim you refer to was an F.6 (possibly an F.6A although we never were able to confirm it’s identity) which was restored by a couple of very nice chaps from 1986 Squadron ATC at Wymondham in Norfolk. I helped out with a bit of advice and a few small parts at the time and they made a stunning job of it. As David says it visited Cockpitfest in 2005 in 74 Sqn markings and won two prizes.
Sadly, since then the CO of the ATC squadron changed and, amazingly, the new one had no interest in the Hunter/sim. The last I heard it had fallen into some disrepair and the two chaps who had restored it resigned as CIs in protest. That was a few years ago now and I haven’t been in touch with them for a good while now so don’t know if the situation has changed.
I certainly hope it has as wasting the efforts made in restoring this cockpit would be a absolute disgrace in my view.
Thx Mark, and to Howard too for the update on the other pic, nice to ID it at last and the location. Yes that’s the story I heard at the time too, it really was a shocking waste of a great asset and a really economical flag-waver – some people still say that ‘558 should have stayed in the RAF as the running costs were acceptable for it as a promotional tool to the world, as well as British engineering excellence.
Regardless of that however was the fact that the Hunter was obviously drastically less to run but it had just as positive a response from the public, to judge from those waiting to get into it at Seething alone. It was obviously a lot quicker and smaller to get into and transport, as well as being a
hands-on display that the public could identify with immediately with the adults being as keen as the kids to try their hand at flying a RAF jet warbird.
After all that work and in particular, the simple but ingenious way they made the column base go into the PC mouse alone for control inputs, you thought that here was a promotional device that would run and run and which would surely be utilized to the maximum for a long time to come, at air shows and charity events, etc. 2 pics attached as seen at Colti in May 2006.
Add the interior lights and functioning instrumentation, the clear graphics and input response and you had a lovely concept that worked supremely well while the exterior was superlative too. Glad it won the awards mentioned, I thought that would have made an impression on some senior RAF figures while being a confirmation of the training and initiative that all the personnel showed in its construction, which was to be commended – by those ‘higher above’ you would have thought.
Shame on that CO, he deserved to be drummed out without a pension.
GOKONELIVE HUNTER COCKPT SIM Q
Gokone -the Hunter you refer to was a Hunter F.6 cockpit from memory -it came out of the play area at Duxford and went to the ATC unit who subsequently restored it -brought it to Cockpitfest and won the ‘Robert Rudhall’ award a number of years ago.
Thx Dave, that’s weird, I thought the attached was the sim in question but it seems to be at odds with tour mark given as it says F.1 on the back – I’ll have to check my old issues on the V.A. newsletter as I did a little story on it, seems to be the Valiant cockpit now in Scotty land to the right too, I don’t think that was at Seething at the time but maybe this was shot somewhere else.
GOKONEFITTED OUT COCKPITS
Interesting point about cockpit prices, but it does seem to come down to condition.
A really nicely restored and complete cockpit will always be more attractive and make more than part restored with bits missing.
I don’t think some people appreciate just how expensive it can get to source cockpit parts and paint to a good standard.
Therefore a really good vampire may make more than an average condition Canberra for example.
Yes, mine is as complete as I can get it and I’ll add two indicators onto the port coaming too, it was used for a time as a procedures trainer, so although its tidier and more pristine than most it still has some wear while adding some wires here and there might appeal to someone taking it on.
I also added a (non-working) clock on mine but it has the mechanism regardless and it looks better than the blank hole I originally inherited, there’s nothing like a full set of correct instruments on a panel and in good condition, the alt was scrappy but I’ve replaced it with a nice example of the same type.
I remember seeing a trailored Bucc at the Fest a few years back where the stb’d side seemed to have had holes filled with very non-standard instrumentation. Here’s my main panel now anyway and the port side.
GOKONEHUNTER COCKPIT/TRAILER Q
very fair I think. without trailer looking at around £4k
Thx, just wanted to make sure I was on the right lines, from some other people, I found the new centre leg panel for it that I bought off Mike Shaw at Shoreham many years ago, it will look even lovelier when that’s put in – if I can remember the bolt size for the 4 corners that is, knew I should have taped the originals from the old panel onto it!
GOKONEHUNTER FGA.9 COCKPIT & TRAILER PIC
How about a photo?:)
Baz
Sure Baz, see attached. Its lovely but I rarely get to see it (I’m London based – no land as usual) and I’m not getting enough out of it – need to buy some smaller bits instead! If I was moving soon I’d try and hold onto it, recently finished restoring the main and starboard panels anyway.
Does anyone remember the hulk F.1 (WT685) that was formerly a play-pen machine for kids at Duxford? I saw saw it at Seething Air Show 6(?) years ago after it was restored and converted into a sim with a screen inside by some cadets and an overseer, forget his name. At the rear was a control room where the ‘controller’ could talk to you and advise how you were doing.
You could hit a switch and see how you were flying externally, but the beauty was that all the instruments worked, a fabbo construction and no idea why it never came to the Fest. I last saw it at the last Colti show 3-4 years ago in the hangar with Mick Jenning’s collection, hope its being used still and giving youngsters a great taste of jet flying.
One day…
GOKONEVALIANT PHOTOS/XD857 THE 1st CAMO V DISPLAY
At the moment there’s a small album of Valiant photographs at Farnborough in this Gallery on the Newark Air Museum website!
Thanks for the pics update Howard, I also had a great response from Anthony Wright Sqn Ldr RAF Ret’d, after the V Reunion last year. Some of his recollections are as below, with a surprise discovery following his reading of our “V-Bomber Snippets” on the V.A. website, as originally published in the newsletter in March 2011.
“Gary, Just looking at your excellent website again I noticed the entry of yours below;”
VALIANT THE FIRST ’V’ TO PUBLICLY DISPLAY IN CAMOUFLAGE
AIR DISPLAYS ARE HERE AGAIN 1964
Making the first appearance of a camouflaged V-bomber at a public display, a green and grey Valiant B(K)1 of 148 Sqn, RAF Marham, showed itself in the low level capacity at the annual RAFA Whit Monday air display at North Weald. Coming in very low and fast from the north, the Valiant proved how successful the new paint scheme is, for many eyes tried in vain to follow the commentators injunction to spot “the Valiant approaching from your right” –
Flight International, 28th May 1964
WHIT MONDAY 1964
“This rang a bell and prompted me to get out one of my log books and lo and behold the following entry :
18th May 1964 T/O 1425 A/C Valiant XD857 Pilot Flt Lt Phillips Navigator Fg Off A J Wright Flight Details – Flying Display, Church Fenton, Hucknall, North Weald Day 2hrs 30 mins.
Looking up past calendar dates 18th May was a Whit Monday. It was a single navigator sortie (hence my not putting in Navigator Radar) as my normal crew Captain Flt Lt Norman Bevis (now deceased) and Nav Plotter and Flt Cdr – Sqn Ldr Ken Lewis (now deceased) didn’t want to do a weekend trip and so I, as a Nav Radar, flew the sortie with another Captain and a Nav Plotter missing. I’ve attached my log book pages for proof!
CAMO INVENTOR ‘SWIRLS’
Another snippet on the subject of camouflage – I recall all of us squadron aircrew standing outside our 148 Sqn hangar, RAF Marham, on the day of the landing of the first Valiant to return to us from being repainted in the new camouflage livery. We had been pre-warned by ATC of its approach and so aircrew from the other Marham sqns 49, 207 and 214 (tankers) were also, I assume, out to see it arrive.
We were all obviously conned by some wag who said that he’d heard that the inventor/painter of the camouflage had ensured that his initials were in the ‘swirls’ of the camouflage. Despite straining our eyes , moving our heads and trying, with great imagination, to decipher these so called initials it was to no avail. It took some time for it to sink in that we’d been had!
Lastly, once the a/c had arrived, one camouflaged Valiant among the rest of the white Valiants , everyone wanted to fly it! So for the next few weeks everyone wanted to fly in a camouflaged Valiant. Although a bit of a disappointment really because although the outside was nice and shiny the inside was just the same. It hadn’t been touched. Of course as time went on gradually they all became repainted. You can imagine the next outcome – when we got down to only one white Valiant on the Squadron everyone clamoured to fly that one! So typical aircrew – always boys at heart!
I didn’t know 47 years ago, and also when I submitted my information to you, that I was flying the first V to publicly display in camouflage. Your website, when I read the input from ‘V Snippets’ from Flight International, only brought it home to me the other day. It may be that the others in that a/c are still unaware of the fact. Thanks again for all your sterling work. Anthony Wright
GOKONEVALIANT PRESSURE BULKHEAD/’857 & VICTOR MEMORIES
[QUOTE=keithnewsome;1764836]The only photos I have of the remains at Flixton ….. is that (half of) a pressure bulkhead ??
Keith. 🙂
‘857 DISPLAY STAND
That is indeed what remains of her bulkhead Keith, but the pics are a bit out of date now as ‘857 was raised onto her new stand last may, though her bulkhead was also rubbed down and painted around two years ago in silver, as per the attached pic.
The display stand has allowed some evening up of her sides with some judicious use of the angle grinder, though she still has to have a cover over her prior to major repairs to the various holes, rents and missing/ broken windows she suffered over so many years. Her original white scheme is visible below her later grey/green camo finish.
A SMALL WORLD – 27th April: George Grimshaw
I met another V person at Flixton on the Tuesday after the V Reunion last year – so I asked him to sign my Victor XL190 nose door too!
Amazingly his wife also remembered Valiant ‘857 being built at Brooklands as a little girl, as her uncle was a foreman there. She recalled the many complex pristine wiring looms that were being fitted on the day of her visit over half a century ago – a small world indeed!
Her husband is George Grimshaw and he later mailed me: “Thank you Garry for your e-mail and the Victor Association newsletter. It looks most interesting. I haven’t had time to read all of it yet but looking at the photographs brought back many memories. I only flew in the Victor with 232 OCU at Gaydon from 1958 to 1961 and with 10 squadron from 1961 until the squadron was disbanded in 1964.
The Victor was a great aircraft to fly in. Thanks for the photo of No. 2 victor course taken at RAF Gaydon. I was stationed at the OCU there at that time and do recognise some of the people on the photo. After completing No.31 Valiant Course in June 1958 I remained at the OCU until completing No. 35 Victor Course in July 1961 and was posted to 10 Squadron at Cottesmore.
The first victor that I flew in was XA933 in June 1958’. Best wishes George”.
GOKONELITTLE MORE
Cash, home life, storage space, time for projects are limiting factor when varying one’s display.
If you’ve already shown everything you own, then there is little more you can show! :rolleyes:
Not unless you do the lap-top dance in that ‘Dreamboy’ routine after working out, while wearing your ‘Officer & A Gentleman” whites.
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