More Pre-Show Comment

Still getting texts and e-mails in on it, this in today:

I don’t think things will change sadly, there is no shortage of space so they could charge £15 for an outside pitch and so many people would do it that the airfield would be better off! A lot of outside stalls were only really boot fair stalls anyway, but bargains were still to be had here and there.

I suppose its best if we post here with some reviews and thoughts after the event and also use the Popham e-mail link to give direct feedback to the airfield management as you say, but its a shame that shortsightedness is killing off a quirky and probably unique event.

Once goodwill is lost its next to impossible to regain, I like the odd mix there and its never really been an aerojumble though less people sell it these days, but I’d hate to see it go. Stall rents were a sensible £20 – £25 a couple of years ago! Apparently people haven’t been refunded their £5 after the price increase was dropped I hear.

When it was good it seemed rightly priced but as soon as it shot up to £45 (is it £50 in the marquee?) then it was too much – that’s Shoreham prices which is a serious aviation kit and material event, there’s too much other stuff at Popham for those kind of prices to be attractive to sellers. Come back Dick!

Plane Talking

I’ve dealt directly with the Airfield Manager since prices have risen and have provided the e-mail address he can be reached at.

Everyone knows the airfield has to make money but things are tight for everyone too and its finding a balance regardless of what government say,s and that’s the worry – yes people don’t have to go and the worry is they may elect not to. It was getting silly some years before the crash though, you could sense it at other shows beforehand in people’s diminishing spending power, especially after being caned by Labour on C-Tax before all the other utilities started hitting the fan.

While I believe the 3-day fee was reduced back to £45 after I contacted Gerry earlier this year AM felt it unclear if the £7.00 per night camping charge is on top of the ‘reduced’ £45 fee that sellers pay for 1-3 days, (depending on how long they wish to go on site), or if they just come to sell on the main day for the same £45 fee.

I’m all for ‘plane’ talking, but the thread was set up to discuss specific concerns on this aviation event and any additional fees compared to past charges could kill it. If the decision is out of Gerry’s hands as previously then feedback needs to be given to the person responsible for the plan via the link – I’m sure he’ll pass any concerns on and discuss it. It is the kind of rise supporters who try to keep the event going feared last year though after Dick’s retirement.

With potentially poor weather it could be a perfect storm as allied to fuel and current fees as A.M. mentions. The cheaper biker charges for similar events also make aeromart people feei more squeezed.

One chap said he was overcharged and would be refunded, but it never materialized when he got his tickets. I’m sure this can be resolved on the day.

Popham Pooper 3

On 6 March I replied to Popham’s Airfield Manager Gerry Smith regarding his update on the price change following my original e-mail:

Hi Gerry,

Thanks for that as I know it will be appreciated by many dealers and visitors to the show, one regular has already thanked me for bothering to write in. There still remains the issue however of the last increase to £45 introduced a few years ago, which has had a detrimental effect and which is still regarded as too high a sum to pay for many – this is because there are a goodly number who don’t / can’t attend for the full 3 days for £45, and for them £45 for a one-day event on the main bank holiday day, even if they set up the night before, is poor value when they can enjoy a comparable event for £20, or a no-thrills car boot for £10.

£30 was a fair price for the day previously and for that you had a good attended show regardless of how many browsers attended, and some bargains were to be found. With spiraling seller and buyer costs and patchy returns it seems these days to be too much army surplus, gardening and cat protection along with everyone managing their lives in an expensive climate.

One feeling is that the marquee is paid for on the Sat/Sun by the microlite crowd, so that aero/auto people feel they are being charged on top for it on the Monday, though if it is proven not so, then certainly by too great an amount re the recent hiked charges, when compared to seeing the fees applied to bikers.

I don’t doubt that the airfield finds things difficult also (including scumbag vandals) and the aim is to find a balance, but I know a good number of dealers who said last year they were undecided on returning, while one has told me that he has grudgingly applied but will also be reviewing it next year in favour of a cheaper local boot instead.

With the plethora of car boots up and down the country these days there is much competition for events and in what are tight times for many still, so that sellers will go where they can take more money for more affordable pitch fees. The preference will be to choose that route instead of Popham as more events become available – one old boy who used to come until a few years back just gave up as it wasn’t worth his while supporting the event as his average turnover wasn’t enough to justify it, even though the general ambience of the event was enjoyable.

The other issue is still the on-going bias towards cheap prices for bikers as mentioned, so that aero/auto booters feel penalized and are subsidizing bike people – and while there is still a marquee for the bike megameet and sometimes two, the fee was only £15 last year I believe.

I see this year that the initial bike event in April is only £5 for a pitch of any space and if it is to encourage the event more then fair enough, but I would have thought this could easily be increased to £10 next year which would still be a comparable to a standard car boot-type price, and could help to reduce the increased pitch fees of 2 years ago as currently applied to aero/auto people.

All the best

So that’s it to date, hope to see you there anyway AM, and Tone and anyone else who can come along, just hoping it isn’t damp and wet as ever. Maybe we can do our own Popham Rock Show sometime to relive those heady heavy metal/glam-prog rock days with an ‘Old Shep’ evening to help encourage some of the older dealers that they can still cut the mustard.

Popham Poppadoms

I will be there too. Hoping its good!

I hope they don’t put you on the wrong table Tone – or the wrong field….. brings lots of money.

I’m feeling thirsty :applause:

It just isn’t the same without that rock band anymore, I still have a number of them on camera which is immediately nostalgic and brings back memories of cold feet, spllt beer, crisps and nuts in the van with chasers after the fun was over.

The music made the evening – though some old g–s used to moan if it went on after 12 – but why? We all used to stay up knowing that they’d be woken up at various times of the night anyway, with the early morning dealer arrivals and motoring people from about 5.30am meaning that they’d have been better having a laugh anyway.

You could still get a hot dog after the gig and a beer unless you had you had your own, though the Vietnamese cooking wasn’t a good idea after a few larrups on the lash with most of the toilets locked. Some unintended entertainment used to result from some songs being murdered by the bands in question, but it was never a case for CIS and you felt you’d had something for your money, while I think it used to help promote good relations between people, especially late arrivals on their flying cloth triangles.

The dirge that has been the late night home made “disco”(?) for some years now is deadsville personified and we have had to revert to our own entertainment solely which, while it can be done, was more enjoyable with the band t accompany it also. I’ll miss not hearing ‘back in Black’ by a 4 or 5 piece outfit that would have made Simon Cowell reach for his buzzer before the end, but it was good fun and sometimes it got close to being a talent show in its own right.

Some of the audience could have got up and had a larf singing the lead vocals just like various club nites at seaside forays along the Essex & Norfolk coats that I enjoyed in the 60’s and 70’s. Who can forget those renditions of ‘Yellow River’, ‘Proud Mary’, ‘Sweet Caroline’, ‘Pretty Woman’, ‘Can’t Help Falling in Love’, ‘Tom-Tom Turnaround’, ‘All Right Now’,’Smoke on the Water’ and ‘I am a Cider Drinker’? The sophisticated clink of ice in a snowball, or carrying a tray of frothing pints of Watney’s Red barrel, the rustle of crisps, the fidgeting with cracked shrimps piled high in ash trays, the desperate search for totty that was able to get away from her parents to go to play pinball or sinking a submarine in the amusements, all sadly lost in these mobile-laptop-twitter-titter times.

One rendition in particular of ‘Old Shep’ by an equally old Scottish lady in the 1970’s at the ‘Golden Gate Club’ (no less) on the California Cliffs caravan park in Norfolk had me in tears, especially when some members of the audience did some howling noises to accompany the faltering emotional refrain. The only thing that saddens me is that no semi-pro/pro band I’ve seen has ever attempted the long-version of ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’ but you never know your luck. 🙁

Popham Pooper Update

I sent this on 26th Feb after they hiked prices to £50 (as we feared after Dick left) , asking why we were getting caned while the bikers only paid a silly amount for their tables. ============== I addressed it to a lady there but a guy called Gerry who is the Airfield Manager came back to me (see later post(s) who was helpful, and after a few exchanges he got it reduced to £45 again. Here’s what I sent:

“HI LYNN,

Aero/Autojumble & Classic Vehicle Rally & Fly-in
I think it was you I spoke to last year when some of us signed the card for Dick’s leaving do. Unfortunately I lost your e-mail details after I said I would give you some feedback on articles I had uploaded onto the Victor Association Forum re Popham Aeromart and prices etc, along with various advertorial designs I have done over the years to help promote the annual aeroboot / Popham in general online, via other Forums.

I mentioned to you then that we were concerned about the recent rises in pitch costs which affected the attendance in 2012, when a line less of stalls was evident after I think the pitch fees went up to £45, along with entrance fees as well as landing fees across the boards.

I have just been informed by a seller today that a further pitch hike has been implemented to a disastrous £50 for this year, which is frankly not worth the outlay for too many small or occasional sellers who help to make the event a bit less staid than it has become in recent times, with the possibility of some fresh and desirable items being offered now looking increasingly remote.

A contact who usually attends says “What everyone was fearing this would happen with Dick’s exit seems now to have occurred with a vengeance under the new management it seems, as he always tried to keep costs reasonable over the years until recent times, when it was raised over a couple of years from £25 to £45 – but still it goes up while the Saturday band has gone, the facilities certainly haven’t improved, the public that do attend are frugal on buying as ever, while everyone have been hit with energy and rail increases alone that make many of us say that its not worth the effort of loading and bringing goods to Popham as its reached a tipping point now.”

“I’ll certainly leave the Saturday out and just do a car boot on the Sunday and have Monday off at home. We expected the last hike to be the last for some time to come and I can’t afford another hike for a pitch though some might still attend only as buyers (if they live close enough) as such fees are unrealistic for sellers of aviation items and service goods in particular – if its poor on the day though, then those that might just visit won’t come next year even as buyers, that’s for sure.”

The cost of fuel in particular has been a factor in attending or not for many people already in recent times, but especially sellers who who too often do not even cover their costs due to finding it doable only due to the former reasonable fees, as their turnover is too low for what the event is.

Many window shoppers who do not purchase in these still-austere times add to the low turnover of goods for many sellers, who in addition to the previously affordable fees, looked on it as (often) a sunny weekend to unwind which helped make it attractive while trying to sell something. The latest rise could kill off a lot more of the event atmosphere also, which lower fees usually encourage otherwise.

No general members of the public will feel like having a loft or shed clearance now because it is too unknown a risk as has been demonstrated in the past, and it is occasional and new sellers like this who help to make the event fresh amongst any regular stalls that still remain, some of whom now will now shun the aeromart event, especially those that come from some distance away such as Suffolk or London etc, to support it.

It now stands to be more charity stalls, army surplus (where practicable for some) and further loss of attractions that the aeromart event needs to have, to make it worthwhile and attractive in general. Another bone of contention is the low pitch fees charged at motor bike events in recent years as mentioned to you in 2013, and outlined on our Forum last year – some attendees have had this to say today:

“Yet again, why is the bike jumble still £15, surely £30 each would be fairer and keep aero/autojumble prices lower, I just can’t afford to subsidize these people anymore and I’m fed up with it, I’m afraid I won’t be going this year sadly”.

“Like we didn’t see that coming when Dick retired……typical.”

This is a common matter amongst too many shows today though some exceptions like Little Gransden are sensible – its stalls there take a £30 donation from us while it has classic cars and bikes like Popham and a superb air show with classic aircraft types including Lancaster and jets. The more expensive Beaulieu has also seen another couple give up on it after a poor selling spell last year. If you can confirm that you remember our chat I will be happy to bring you up to date with my Popham promotionals regardless on the general address above, or your own if different and you are able to supply it again, along with some further comment from our Forum that I mentioned in 2013.”

Kind regards :confused:

I actually end up seeing more of the goods on sale through photographs posted here, like Ian’s, that I do on the day!!

How about some more?!

I’d love to but I’m still out of that megabites upload allocation thingy, took some good shots too 🙁

RECORD PRICES

I’’m glad I’ve kept all my records, unfortunately there’s no room to play them these days. The Beatles White Album is doing well, and ‘Argus’ by Wishbone Ash and ‘Rory Gallagher Live in Europe’ of course is an evergreen while Zappa’s ‘Hot Rats’ and ‘In the Court of the Crimson King’ by KC still sounds good for ‘69.

On the subject of record prices re aviation kit, one seller was charging £600 even 5 years ago for certain aircraft parts and when I inquired to see how it was all evolving, the seller then thought it was worth even more and invited me to make an offer – I baled out on seeing the chancing involved but wanted to see if it was true, having bought an identical item some time before for £120. Silly prices are ultimately silly, but most tellingly, damaging to what we try to do in preservation.

The businesses concerned might be regarded by some as ‘nice’ people (ideally they would need to be at such prices) and not hateful which may be true for all I know, but what has been done over too many years now in helping make our hobby in heritage recess further in unaffordability, IS hateful. A few commentators have recorded that some concerns have been known to ‘help’ out with prices as if that excuses them, but that is the least they can do after the overall damage caused by their driving up of prices universally, to established collectors and preservationists in the market, along with people who don’t, wont, or can’t attend aeroboots and are unaware of realistic prices.

For many years people like Nev Martin, Mike Shaw and others charged sensible prices like we get (in general) at boots/marts today still, and always made a profit over many years, but the online seller and its spin-off effects have been very damaging for preservation and is stifling our successors in the years to come – and those businesses don’t care, even when such silly prices come back to bite them during fluctuating economic times as they struggle to shift loudly-proclaimed items that don’t fool the grass-rooters – but whenever they get lucky with whatever individual or country they succeed with on a sale, then its another nail in the collecting/preservation coffin while making aviation preservation and heritage unviable to people it otherwise might have reached.

How many kids these days, many struggling to find jobs (or not) want to shell out £25+pp for a standard guage that can often be found at a bot for £5, that will help towards buying instead a digital game that they can kill people with over and over on, or who are more into downloading music tracks of their own choosing? Why would they feel obliged to enter into aviation collecting? Many of us are still in a general on-going recession ourselves anyway along with being stiffed by energy and utility providers, motoring and rail costs, hiked service charges, government cuts and others, regardless of the external relentless advances and other trumpeted benefits, of the digital age.

And preservationists have copied many high online prices too, to judge by some prices that are being asked for instruments alone that have been bought at boots for reasonable sums, when they are encouraged to do a ‘Buy It Now’ hike attempt without even considering what it might fetch as an auction post. Part of this is understandable human nature however, for many who see businesses selling items (albeit often after many re-lists) converting such attempts become encouraged, or they might HAVE to pay a dealers high price for one part of a project, and so will want to try to get some of what is regarded as over-the-odds expense back.

Finances for many these days dictate that they feel obliged to apply such prices themselves then, regardless of joining with commercial concerns in driving up price expectation in the process – while remembering or hearing stories of the days before online selling when things were more affordable in a general sense, before pure commercial concerns began such online hikes.

Maybe business concerns who originally drove up and encouraged high prices will at least have to accept their own hiking of the market in certain instances, or they may be delayed in completing their next ‘rare’ or deliberately niche-priced item, that they have conceived for a special pay day. Spares and items that they might need themselves to complete such sales projects before the inevitable invitation to make offers for it, now extend in some cases to trying to sell them away from online sources to avoid the many fees involved, a possible trend I wrote about on the V.A. Forum last year.

If people can’t/won’t get out of bed and go to a boot (and yes I know there’s not so much kit about now) then they won’t see real prices and make valuable contacts, but we’re also concerned with heritage, and that heritage will not be seeing the kind of people that are in it now, coming into it in the future – that’s if the market dosen’t collapse back a bit, because the dealers and copyists causing these prices don’t care if it comes back to bite them. It is very of-the-moment and for small sellers/collectors in particular, many can’t, rather than don’t care, as it is driven by financial necessity. In the case of businesses and in times of austerity, if they can’t flog their wares and certainly larger items, they will reduce prices only if they are desperate and willing to risk any precedent-setting that might encourage on-going lower price expectation from buyers, than those previously offered online.

Higher prices mean stagnation – the dealer dosen’t flog stuff anything like as quick, and the buyer holds onto his money to watch and wait, or because he/she simply can’t/won’t pay it, and certainly for many of us, not during austerity times as mentioned. Yes there will be well-off buyers if any new blood (young or old) become interested, but its still a niche market and the majority will have to accept holes in their collections. The other problem for high prices is that if concerns start off with REALLY untra-silly prices (and some large lumps in recent years come to mind), then despite the exhortations and exclamation marks extolling the virtues of these rare and apparently historic items, people immediately see through the bull and know its too high – but the seller has then painted himself into a corner which can often take too long to dry.

As the initial price starts to be reduced, it erodes not just the sellers’ profit margin, but also confirms an accompanying loss of credibility for all to see, at the original high valuation that was first demanded. Such things don’t get forgotten in the aviation world in general and one senior at a well-known aviation museum last year publicly stated that they won’t deal with many online concerns, preferring traditional swops and private deals.

One concern even offered to store a large item if it was bought by a contact recently in the eagerness to get shot of part of a job lot that has not fetched the original price demanded – the concern must have caught a cold and perhaps a further drop in unit price will still evolve. I have no objection to making a profit on anything that both businesses and preservationists/private sellers might have, and we all wish for that when things get passed on – its the degree of valuation however that has caused the problems, and certainly online selling has been largely responsible for this, notwthstanding the decline of the golden days of classic RAF aircraft in particular, and of aeromart spares and events down the years.

I accept that there are still bargains to be had online – though I personally find the time involved unaffordable while I don’t care for many of the terms – but if people are prepared to buy online because it is more convenient and offers more all-year-round and they don’t have the time for boots while regarding dealer chancing prices as the norm (because they are not in touch with grass-roots preservation), then its up to them. That dosen’t stop people in the know decrying it and championing boots because one-to-one contact alone is vital.

The crux however is that ultimately dealer high prices and copyists are killing the hobby which is a niche one, but all hope to ensnare enough people via the web’s reach, which in itself has contributed towards high-price stagnation via its obvious universal linking of people.

Many of us pass knowing comments on e-mails about the latest recession-get-rich-overnight price that some known commercial interests have been chancing on for many years now, and those that deliberately describe something as ‘rare’ or ‘probably rare’ or indeed, is even something that it is not – the Forum Hurri-Harvard grip debate alone last year was most enlightening, in which a selling concern admitted it KNEW the item was wrongly described – so much for effective online policing then, in which buyers in disputes are favoured when many legit sellers get ripped off.

It makes too many feel ill in particular when some selling concerns paying media lip-service say how much they are into their particular business when their prices prove to many buyers and observers that they are clearly only into quick large-scale profit that is wrecking and distorting the preservation market – not just now and for the future as we have witnessed, but for the potential collectors of the future – aside from Max Blood and excluding any Air Cadets at NAM and elsewhere, how many young people do we see at boots these days? It was warned and predicted by many of us soon after silly prices came along by exploiters of online sellings, around 9-10 years ago, and it has come true.

I don’t care about business interests and their supporters who try to justify such prices; nor those who say it is inevitable; nor those who shrill that it is what the ‘market will stand’; nor those preservationists who shrug it off while saying its a good laugh and who carry on with their own projects (and good luck to them by the way) while rightly doing their own deals at aeroboots and through private deals which ARE sensible – they pay what they know is a fair price and not the inflated ones. All I can see is that such prices are generally unpopular and they have made a mockery of aviation collecting and preservation today.

If dealers of high prices want to carry on stagnating the market while hoping to sell off large/small size items of high unit price (as opposed to grass-roots values) then they are obviously not in love with the business they are concerned with as some might profess, and simply hope to pick their way through difficult times while hoping to get lucky by increasing niche-selling to targeted customers of higher financial worth, thanks to the net’s reach and built-up buyer lists.

To end on a happy note, if you want a laugh then quote an item to an interested online dealer at their own online price and observe the facial droop – or the pleading/questioning tone resulting, if quoted over the phone. One old-time dealer told me of doing just that to an online concern some years ago which had gathered together a pile of instrumentation in obvious expectation of what it considered would be a lower lot price – but unhappily choked on, when reaping its own whirlwind. I doubt if any would begrudge preservationists tempted by charging online prices in this instance and would regard them as justified – its a shame that it has come to this however.

Onwards and downwards.