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Robert Hilton

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  • in reply to: Supercruising #2468601
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    it seems that F-22 dont need A/B..
    I think that the F-22:s nozzles make all the difference.. to make the high excaust speed needed (effective in high speed) without the afterburner you have to have a good restriction in the backend. This for creating a high pressure in the backend. The pressure accelerates the escaping excaust even more.
    The normal nozzle as F-16, Gripen or even F-35 have, dont seem to be able to restrict the flow that much, therefore not as fueleffcient or fast in supercruise.
    as an example:
    The speed of the excaust at takeoff moves 1,5 mach faster backwards than a plane at 1,5 mach.. the speed must be compensated.
    So if you have an engine that only have the excaust speed of 1,5 mach, all thust is gone at 1,5M speed of the airplane. Still the engine burns as much fuel. At standstill that engine could even be as effective as making a VTOL, because is shuffles a bigger mass of air instead of smaller mass with speed.

    Also a low by-pass should also increase the efficency in hi speeds due to higher temps and pressure to compensate for a not so good nozzle restriction. thou lower efficency at lower speed.

    Do you follow?

    I’m afraid you are off the mark as to how a gas turbine engine works, especially the thrust nozzle.
    A normal convergent thrust nozzle is in general set to a point where the gas-flow is “choked” that means that the gas velocity is Mn 1.0. If you wish to accelerate it further then you need a con-di (convergent-divergent) nozzle.
    Because the a/c is travelling Mn 1.5 doesn’t mean that the gas-flow rearwards exceeds Mn 1.0, perhaps you should read up on Mach, start with the definition.
    Also increasing the pressure in the rear of the engine will only make it stall/surge, once the compressor itself chokes.
    There are an awful lot of good books on how gas turbines work. I would suggest you read one.

    in reply to: Lightning High Altitude Flights #1225087
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    yes well sarcasm aside Chox, do you know much about Lightnings? I’ll go through it for you. I would like to hear a direct account from an ex Lightning pilot losing pressurisation and conditioning @ 75,000ft plus, and recovering alive, because it would be a very slim chance of survival. Which Lightning pilots would they be? Well, the ones with super human bodies that allowed them to descend for 2 minutes vertically with zero power, no cockpit pressurisation, conditioning or oxygen supply, and not fall foul to severe hypoxia? or the ones with once in a life time good fortune?

    I wonder if you would remain in one piece long enough to carry out the rest of your scenario.

    in reply to: Lightning High Altitude Flights #1227769
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    As a wild guess…..were any EEL’s fitted with a Rocket motor for some sort of trials? Tropopause isn’t so important on Rocket Fuel. Wild guess, but possibly the only way he could get 1.5 miles higher than others.

    If I remember correctly a P1b and a DB a/c were fitted with a rocket pack but it was never use at Sqn level.

    in reply to: F-4M FGR Mk.2 versus EE F.6 Lightning #2476966
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    I must say I am a bit surprised.
    From conventional wisdom the Lightning shouldn’t make turns around the Phantom. Wing loading is higher, sweep and geometry don’t really look like it could turn with less induced drag.
    Thrust to weight is less, at least below M1.5.
    I would call it “double inferior”, even though not with large margin.

    The Lightning has far less situational awareness, due to worse sensors and only one crew member (which really kicks in for 2 vs 2 scenarios).

    In the armament of the Phantom the lack of an internal cannon is a clear disadvantage (one could assume they would carry one in such engagements, but let’s assume they don’t). I would think that 4 Sidewinders enable more flexibility, especially allows to shoot one to make the opponent defensive.

    I can’t see how the Lightning comes out on top regularly, at best they win a few engagements. If full armament potential of the Phantom is used (and can be sued in a particular situation), I don’t think they have much of a chance. Their tactic would be to stay out of harms way and only attack when they can make advantage of superior speed.

    Having seen Sqn Ldr Brindle throw a Lightning around the sky I would have to say you are wide of the mark. The Lightning was a very nimble a/c and, as has been pointed out further down, unlike the Phantom it didn’t need reheat to keep up it’s airspeed. The radar and weapons fit was old and not up to the later standards of the Toom. BVR certainly a different story for the same reasons. If combat occured in RAFG (2a’s) then the missile fit was even worse (Firestreak only) and there was no GCI in G, so it was effectively a supersonic Spitfire. It regularly came out best in combat, even with more modern a/c. Great acceleration and agility compared to your opponent allows you to dictate the terms on which you do combat. That was probably the reason the Lightning survived as long as it did as a front-line fighter.

    in reply to: Supercruising #2476996
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    Actually 50% is more a BALLPARK “rule of thumb”. And note that Schorsch’s numbers add up to 40%, not TOO far from the “quck & dirty estimate” of 50%.

    Of couse in reality MANY factors come into play that can alter the actual % somewhat. If you are actually trying to do an ‘accurate’ estimate/calculation chances are you don’t have enough information to be as accurate as you would like.

    Actually, 50% wouldn’t be a bad estimate. It’s what I was quoted for the Lightning’s over-wing tanks at the servicing school.
    At cruise speed of course.

    in reply to: Jag at Brunty #1228328
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    Do you know the tail number by chance?

    in reply to: Supercruising #2478858
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    FYI

    I believe the Supercruise of Mach 1.2 was for a clean Gripen 2 Seater…..Which, they claimed had better aerodynamics than the single seaters.

    It is possible, the T-bird Jaguar was quicker than the single seat.
    When I was on II (a/c) sqn we were replacing the 102 engines with higher thrust 104’s. Our boss took out the first single seat equipped with them and tried to out-drag the T-bird fitted with 102’s, he lost. He wasn’t very pleased when he climbed out.

    in reply to: Supercruising #2478864
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    2. According to Wiki:
    The stratosphere extends from the troposphere’s 7–17 km (4.3–11 mi; 23,000–56,000 ft) range to about 51 km (32 mi; 170,000 ft). Temperature increases with height.

    Therefore, the height (28,000 fts) that Gripen Demo achieved Mach 1.2 might be in the range of stratosphere. If this assumption is true, then the temperature at the height of 36,000 – 40,000 fts+ should be higher, not lower, compared with the temperature at the height of 28,000 fts.

    Which goes to show you should take everything you read on Wiki with a pinch of salt. Generelly, the higher you go the colder. There are layers of stable/warmer air and location is also important, but the Wiki description isn’t correct.
    Try this graph for size
    http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es1702/es1702page05.cfm

    in reply to: Supercruising #2480959
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    Sorry, didn’t see this post.
    F414 40.000 ft Mach 1.2 =8481 pounds of thrust.

    Does that mean i should calculate with 8.481 lbs instead of 15.000 ?
    Or should i assume it still burn the same amount of fuel on max dry setting, but with less effect ?

    If the sfc remains the same (which it should do) then it will burn less fuel.
    There is less thrust at altitude because the air is less dense. The FCU (fuel control unit) takes this into account and trims the fuel flow accordingly. On the RR Avon they used to call it the amplification ratio. What the FCU did was to trim back the fuel pressure 60 psi for every 1 psi drop in air pressure, which seeing as the overall fuel-air ratio (FAR) was 60:1 would seem logical.
    How it is trimmed these days with FADEC I’m afraid I couldn’t say, but basic principals remain the same.

    in reply to: TSR.2 Memories project #1233205
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    Tactical Strike Recce

    in reply to: Supercruising #2485228
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    Beyond 60k special equipment is needed, which is cumbersome and doesn’t help the pilot to fly his mission. Operationally such altitudes are useless, as they can only be achieved with prolonged afterburner use and supersonic speeds (yes, even the mighty mighty F-22 will have to use it).
    They are printed everywhere because they impress they laymen (which they apparently do quite successfully) and have no tactical significance (a bit like top speed).

    Height can be turned into speed at will.

    in reply to: Supercruising #2485402
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    Certain individuals here are under the impression based upon a graphic, that the F-22 operated in the 50k+ range(of course the last time I checked- 65,000 met that qualification), just like M1.82 meets the M1.5+ qualification. This is why they get so many things wrong, because they’re assuming that figures given on vanilla open source brochures/briefs/graphics, represent the max capability.

    An aircraft being able operate at 60,000 ft+ may only be certified at a lower altitude for a number of reasons. Even flying kit will limit the height it may fly.
    The EE Lightning was cleared for something like 56,000 ft but would easily zoom past 65,000 ft. However should the a/c depressurise at that altitude then the pilot would have abit of a problem what with havng no pressure suit.

    in reply to: Wright Flyer dataplate for sale #1235725
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    I remember little red tractors on eggs, but not HP motifs…… 😀

    Nope, no tractors:)

    in reply to: Supercruising #2486333
    Robert Hilton
    Participant
    in reply to: Wright Flyer dataplate for sale #1237078
    Robert Hilton
    Participant

    It makes me wonder what I’d get for my Handley-Page yolk motif;)

Viewing 15 posts - 256 through 270 (of 673 total)