[USER=”71228″]garryA[/USER]
I was basically using a strawman argument that the Iranians are not at the level of technology to reduce their Shabab-3 to the size of the kinzhal or silver sparrow(which seems to still be in testing I guess). And that the Iranian engineers that made the missile are in disbelief that there are other countries more advanced them in a certain field. It was announced that a missile with similar characteristics to the kinzhal is being developed to fit inside the aircraft according to the tass source that business insider along with other sources started blowing up the news report. I am just wondering why people draw conclusions on projects if they are not complete yet.
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he meant 4 missiles in total
Thanks
https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2018/3/30/11119/print/
“The 700-kilogram rocket is attached to both the external suspension unit and to a special compartment inside its fuselage.” I guess the su-57 has room for a 5.34 meter length missile. I am wondering if there is a weight limit inside an aircraft with 3,800kgs either it being the old or new engines. some here said that is too much weight.
are these sources correct for the old engine? I wonder if there is a weight limit for missiles being inside or outside an aircraft.
[USER=”7524″]paralay[/USER]
Kh-58UShKA
Dimensions
Diameter: 400 millimeter (15.7 inch)
Length: 4.19 meter (165 inch)
Wingspan: 0.80 meter
Performance
Max Launch Altitude: 20,000 meter
Max Range: 245 kilometer (132 nautical mile)
Min Launch Altitude: 200 meter
Min Range: 10 kilometer
Speed
Top Speed: 3 mach (3,587 kph)
Weight
Warhead: 150 kilogram (331 pound)
Weight: 650 kilogram (1,433 pound)
Inside suspension. So are you saying one of the internal weapons bays? So would that mean 2,600kg(4 missiles) for just one internal weapons bay?
Does it say anything about how many Kh-31s can fit in or if it can fit at all?
Dimensions
Diameter: 0.36 meter (14.2 inch)
Length: 5.34 meter (210 inch)
Performance
Max Launch Altitude: 15,000 meter
Max Range: 250 kilometer (135 nautical mile)
Min Launch Altitude: 100 meter
Speed
Max Launch Airspeed: 1.50 mach (1,793 kph)
Min Launch Airspeed: 0.65 mach (777 kph)
Weight
Warhead: 110 kilogram (243 pound)
Weight: 715 kilogram (1,576 pound)
Not trying to make a smart ass response but what you are saying to me sounds no different than some Iranian engineer of the Shabab-3 saying, “how can those Israelis and americans simulate our missiles range by being half the length in the form of the missile named silver sparrow”. I am sure that Iranian engineer is in as much disbelief as you are thinking how can you get the same range specs for a smaller size. Many examples have been shown of downsizing missiles. You seem very eager drawing conclusions. I am just reading the sources and looking for possibilities of what their plans might include.
[USER=”70376″]stealthflanker[/USER]
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but with inter-body placement and smaller size,” according to source is inter-body placement describing fitting the missiles internally.
http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraf…000333002.aspx I looked at the offensive and defensive weapons section below. In terms of speed and size the kh-31pd in terms of length and diameter seem no different, kh-31 says mach 3+ NG says mach 3.5 kh-31 is 50km range less than the NG. Yet I can figure out why the kh-31pd is less than half the weight of the brahmos-NG…
I am assuming the mach 10+ or 2000km range needs a lot of fuel is the reason why the Kinzhal would be more heavy.
I think this might be my last question regarding this topic so everyone try to forgive me for sounding like an annoying persistent brat that really wants his kinzhal missiles in the aircraft.
The Brahmos-NG is said to be 50% lighter than its predecessor. Assuming the current Kinzhal missile is 3,800kg, lets say that it got cut in half like the Brahmos-NG with the weight making it 1,900kg. Since I want 2 this will bring the weight back up to 3,800kg. What would the final verdict be for the SU-57’s current or newer engines carrying these?
I am very shocked this has not been brought up on this forum even though there has been a lot of news coverage about it so here we go in case anyone did not receive the news.
http://tass.com/defense/1034559
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“In accordance with Russia’s State Armament Program for 2018-2027, Su-57 jet fighters will be equipped with hypersonic missiles. The jet fighters will receive missiles with characteristics similar to that of the Kinzhal missiles, but with inter-body placement and smaller size,” the source said.”
I heard that the SU-57 approximately has two internal bays that are both 4.6 meters in length and 1 meter wide. The current kinzhal missile has an 8 meter length with 1 meter diameter. They have downsized a missile before that is similar in size like the PJ-10 or regular brahmos missile now called brahmos-ng.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n…s-defense-show
““However, the Brahmos-NG is still faster than the PJ-10 (Mach 3.5 versus Mach 2.8) and has a longer range (more than 300 km/162 nm versus a maximum 290/157 nm km).
Moreover, the BrahMos-NG will have a newly developed AESA radar seeker in place of the mechanically scanned one on the PJ-10.”
I have heard different sources say the regular brahmos missile was 8.5, 8 or 6.9 meters in length and that the brahmos-ng reduced the length by 3 meters. So estimates have said 5 meters in length and 50cms in diameter making it seem very close to possible or possible fitting both missiles inside for each internal bay.
U.S. Navy’s Hugely Versatile SM-6 Missile Keeps Scoring Hits August 30, 2017 interception with SM-6 success.
Another US Navy ballistic missile intercept reportedly fails in Hawaii SM-3 failed interception on Jan 31, 2018
THAAD System Successfully Completes Intercept of MRBM-Class Target July 31, 2017
THAAD System Successfully Completes First Intercept of IRBM-Class Target July 12 2017.
Mig-31 with Kinzhal
1. Is 1 meter shorter than some average SRBM missile lengths, with mach 10+ within the mach 8-12 range most MRBMs fly at. Basically gives air defense radars a less detection and tracking time because of size.
2. Does not follow a simple trajectory throwing off guidance systems trying to intercept it, while most mobile air defense tests were more than likely against simple trajectory path missiles.
3. has a 2,000km range.
SU-57 with Kinzhal like missile.
1. Retains the same advantages listed above(that’s the goal).
2. Because of the size of both internal weapons bays like the Brahmos-NG 2 kinzhal like missiles can be fired simultaneously, while most mobile air defense systems only planned intercepting MRBM and IRBM targets instead of 2 targets at the same time.
3. Has an even smaller RCS because of size even further reducing the radar detection and tracking time of air defenses.
4. Since it is stored internally, this allows the SU-57 to fly closer to SAMs
If these missiles have become operational is it really safe for me to say without any repercussions that the SU-57 would officially be the greatest aircraft against SAMs?
Posting this here just for laughs about the situation in Syria of the s-300 deployment that he joked about the country having a S-700 air defense. https://www.rt.com/politics/441331-s…irinovky-rant/
I was contemplating rather if I should do this or not(it will piss off a certain amount of users here) but I am sure that my questions might make this board explode into possible arguments anyways so here I go. http://qr.ae/TUGSZq
I have heard that using 1-18ghz for AESA T/R modules compared to 8-12ghz you get less noise return in detection. So the question I am aiming for is with a 1-18ghz range can a computer for an aircraft tell the pilot which frequency gave those receivers the highest return? I am very sure you can narrow down your transmitters to a better specific frequency range on where you received the highest noise.
So I am sure that a certain amount of users here are going to say X-band is better at tracking than the lower frequency fire control radars which of course leads me to my 2nd question on that. How far off target is L-band, S-band and C-band in hitting its target? I have made an estimate(my quora answer link) to the possibility of the radar beam azimuth thanks to a certain physicist of how far off target a AESA host radar system of a missile is to track a .0001m2 target on its own at what range and than determining how wide the radar beam of a missile would be than dividing the radar beam by 2 to determine how far off target the missile must be to do the rest of the magic of hitting the target on its own.
Last question. VHF and UHF is good for detection but does anyone have sources of how far off target these frequencies are in hitting their targets without using fire control radars(add the usage of passive sensors as well)?
[USER=”4563″]Trident[/USER] thanks for the info
I stumbled upon some interesting news that needs to be shared here.https://russia-insider.com/en/goodbye-us-stealth-russia-developing-radio-photonic-radar/ri24947
“In accordance to his (most likely his sources) info, Russia not only already has radiophotonics radar, we knew that device existed and was working in lab, but that it will be on trials on Su-35 as a platform before 2021 and that it will be a serial production device.”
This makes me assume that the SU-57 could have had its radar upgraded. If a 4th gen aircraft is getting ROFAR before 2021, They better have put these damn things on the SU-57 earlier than they would on the SU-35. I can only hope since I believe the contract was 2 su-57s coming out each year.
Got a question since I ran into this source.
http://weaponews.com/news/11884-kret-has-created-a-sample-of-photonic-radar-for-the-aircraft-of-the-6t.html
“Concern radio-electronic technologies (kret) has created an experimental model radiovolnah radar for the fighter 6th generation, which will replace the pak fa (t-50), reports tass deputy general director of the enterprise Vladimir mikheev. According to mikheev, “Progress in developing avionics for the aircraft of the sixth generation is, and in particular in respect to radio-optical photonic antenna array it on a radar locator”. In r & d (research work) on the basis of the experimental sample is constructed and the emitter and the receiver. All of this work, is the location – emitted microwave signal, it is reflected back, we acquired and processed, the resulting radar image of the object. Look at what you need to do to it was optimal, he said in an interview. The deputy director noted that “Now the research is a full-fledged model of this radio-optical photonic antenna array, which will work out the characteristics of a production model”. We understand what it (the radar) must be in any geometric size, on what bands and what power should work, he added. Kret also fulfills the technology specific elements of the new radar its emitter, photonic crystal, foster tract resonators. Serial sample locator do when we move to the stage of experimental design work (okr), for example, by order of the war department, said mikheyev. He explained that “Conventional radar station (radar) radiation is generated by vacuum-tube or semiconductor devices, the efficiency is relatively low – 30-40%”. The remaining 60-70% of the energy is converted into heat. The new radar a radar signal is obtained by converting photonic crystal laser coherent energy in a microwave radiation.
This transmitter efficiency will be not less than 60-70%. That is a big part of laser energy will be converted into a radar, with the result that we can create a radar of high power, said the deputy director. The locator will not be a separate module in the nose of the aircraft, it will be a distributed system. Something similar can be seen today on the fifth generation fighter t-50 radar which operates in different bands and in different directions. In fact it is a single locator, but he exploded on the plane. It turns out about three or four different radars, which are comfortably placed around the fuselage and can simultaneously observe all the space around the aircraft, said mikheyev. Radiophony radar will be able to see, according to our estimates, far beyond the existing radar.”
So let me get this straight transmitter efficiency for conventional radars on aircrafts they say 30-40% by either vacuum tubes or semiconductor devices, transmitter efficiency will not be less than 60-70% because crystal laser energy is converted to microwave radiation. When Mikheev stated this after talking about the transmitter efficiency, “That is a big part of laser energy will be converted into a radar, with the result that we can create a radar of high power.” Is he referring to the amount of power a transmitter module could use? for conventional radar he states 60-70% of the remaining energy is converted to heat. The problem with T/R modules not being fully used to their potential is because of overheating. so if transmitter efficiency for laser energy is 60-70% does that mean they are saying that 30-40%(or lower) is converted to heat energy meaning that T/R modules on aircraft’s could possibly use twice as much power because the problem of overheating has been significantly reduced? There was an indian defense forum I ran into where someone stated that the PAE(Power Added Efficiency) for aircraft X-band radars that if your exceeding 25% PAE you will be overheating your modules. Seen GaAS and GaN X-band T/R modules with 30-40% PAEs…..So is he stating that the PAE will not be less than 60-70% while the rest of the energy is converted to heat?
Also are satellites using the same based technology?
https://sputniknews.com/military/201810021068501835-china-submarine-laser-satellite/
“If successful, the satellite’s laser beam could zero in on a submarine and shoot back pulses to the satellite that would be analyzed to pinpoint the vessel’s location, three-dimensional shape and speed. The beams, used in conjunction with microwave radar technology, would be able to scan areas as wide as roughly 100 kilometers or focus on areas measuring just 1 kilometer.
https://sputniknews.com/science/201806101065288031-laser-cannon-space-debris/
“The proposal drafted by the scientists involves creating “an optic detection system which includes a solid-state laser and a transmit/receive adaptive optical system.”
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3371103.html if the Altair program failed, I am now starting to have doubts that a heavier drone like the okhotnik-B is going to be operational in 2020. I am sure the US had good reasons for cancelling the X-47B(with payloads, weight, design, flight range similar to okhotnik-B). They had operational drones like the MQ-9 and RQ-4 heavy as this Altair drone they are trying to develop. What I am saying is my bets are on that the okhotnik-B will not be operational any time soon especially in 2020.
rocket propelled UAVs. http://tass.com/defense/1023681
“If you paid close attention, those claims was said by Jennifer Dyer instead of Israel MoD spokesman.” on the 25th post you seem to have referenced her as well while I did the same(so were you paying attention? I thought we were on the same boat). So you don’t trust Dyer some self proclaimed American Weapon and Middle Eastern expert (I believe they have quoted a retired US Naval Officer saying strikes would be nearly impossible for israel) Got it.
[USER=”58228″]mig-31bm[/USER]. They were also speaking about destroying the radars and missile launchers immediately even claiming they need extra aircraft if it was turned on.
Sorry for mixing the sources. This what they said about it 5 months ago. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/245224
“She told Arutz Sheva the IAF has trained against Greece’ version of the S-300 system which is an older system than the one Russia plans to give to Syria.
The Israeli Air Force is able to fight the system “credibly if a full-blown war were started,” Dyer said but warned that Israel’s ability to prevent such a war via preemptive attacks would “shrink drastically if the S-300 is allowed to go operational in Syria.”
Furthermore, Israel should not allow the S-300 to become operational, Dyer said, and advised the IAF to focus on taking out the missile launchers of the sophisticated system.
“Without their launchers, the missiles are no good. There’s more than one way to attack the launch vehicles when they’re en route or stored before deployment,” Dyer said and warned that letting the S-300 go operational in Syria would mean the IAF will need “extra warplanes” and “a concerted effort for each strike event.””
“The kinds of low-level, preemptive strikes (in Syria) the IAF has executed in the last few years, against Hezbollah targets and the special weapons targets of Iran and the Assad regime, would become virtually impossible,” the retired US Naval officer said.”
”Dyer said and warned that letting the S-300 go operational in Syria would mean the IAF will need “extra warplanes” and “a concerted effort for each strike event.”
I would really want to know the amount of aircrafts from the US and Israel would take to knock this system out (this is not even anywhere close to what their modern air defense networks could do). Instead of them so being against it they should just let Syria turn it on if really is that easy to take care of as everyone here says it is.