FlubbaIt employs roughly 1.3 Million. Im not saying it’s utter crap what im saying is that it has major problems. I think the concept is fine but the implementation is wrong, it could be far better run and do more with the same money and people could get what they needed. Governments have thrown too much money at the NHS without having an in depth look at the way the service is run and how it works.
The point in the NHS is to provide healthcare free at the point of delivery, IT SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT THE JOBS. Typing in caps is shouting btw.
That is maybe the single biggest flaw with people’s thinking is Jobs the NHS is a health service not a jobs creation project. That is the responsibility of the Social Security department. Same with the military and procurment decisions mainly about jobs the thinking is like “ahh who gives a **** if people die as long as we can keep some incompetent people rolling in it”
FlubbaAhaha! nice one grim had not heard of that one, bloody bonkers none the less. Afghanistan is in some ways beyond help they dont want us there and people have tried before and failed.
Swerve look at the nations health compared to other nations and look at the money spent in the NHS. Look at the problems in the NHS, the concept is great the implementation is off. It really needs a major rethink.
It saved your life great, It provided poor care to my gran which eventually contributed to her death. It also made me ill when i went in with a simple head wound, it got infected in hospital and i had to have it drained of pus. It also made my brother critically ill when he was admitted with a chest infection and then caught a secondary infection. My gran on my mothers side recently caught MRSA recovered and was discharged she then fell and damaged her hip was readmitted caught an infection and the suffered renal failure and we had to sign a DNR it got that close. Luckily my uncle is a renal specialist so that turned out ok as he was in the UK so could help.
Sorry if my opinion of the NHS aint stellar. My Mother is a nurse and i mean a proper old style nurse and my uncle both have praise for it in concept but think it needs looked at.
Yes things were tight and not great when it came to morale, treatment of the service members and equipment. If you read my posts that is why i said all i would advocate is a moderate increase in manpower, Im not the Nut that cant type asking for 7 carriers. Costs would be high but not stellar, we dont have bases abroad anymore and modern forces require less manpower. If done in a smart way costs could be kept within affordable levels. The current armed forces could be much better if waste was cut and generally run better.
FlubbaI know we do quite a bit of it especially medical work in Africa, i remember reading a blog about an army medic part of a convoy of 6 trucks that travelled around the small villages providing help. But im talking about bigger and better like building schools, hospitals and other infrastructure to benefit the people. Re-building and modernising ports, airports and things that we can do better. While doing so we can build in all the Green things like wind power etc that can easily be maintained by the locals and help with the whole global warming problem. For instance UK made solar panels could be installed as part of a project to provide power to remote areas which is a better idea compared to generators etc.
The Media problem is intresting no UK media really has a defense department or sector, not even the BBC has a page for defence. It’s all mixed in with technology etc.
My favoured foreign policy is more relations and co-operation with the Commonwealth nations. Im reasonably pro US (I have family there amongst other places) but we need to stop being their obedient little dog. Im not a massive fan of the EU it has pro’s and con’s just gotta find the balance.
FlubbaI feel the majority of foreign aid money is wasted and there is plenty of simple truth to that and Yes it is an exercise of soft power but not an efficent effective one.
Soft power done through a military can achieve more in most poorer nations, they need security and infrastructure both things militaries excel at. Most countries have problems as they are not stable both in governance and security an army can provide the security for a government to work and also assist with building infrastructure. It is also excellent training for operations and is a far more visable way of conducting soft power.
An example of visable military soft power is Qatar’s C-17’s that are painted in their national Airlines livery. So when they fly in aid to a nation the people on the ground see a big plane land with help with a form of advertising on the fuselage.
I would bet that an army from a nation in a poor country helping the people face to face would have better propaganda value than money. It would show that the UK armed forces are not big bad people they hear about in stories but in fact nice caring people that can help and dont always kill people.
You are right there are many other nations around the world we could coerce to better effect and more benefit for us. I was using Zimbabwe as an example as i said. The Caribbean region we could influence more if we built up the RN and deployed there more providing security in the region and an alternative to the US hegemony. We also have far more history with many nations in the region.
OT: Have you watched On tour with the Queen? if not i suggest you do some Jamicans said some very suprising things.
FlubbaThats very philosophical but true nonetheless, it is human nature at the end of the day and until someone finds a way to change it or we evolve it will stay that way.
Im not saying be an Empire again but i would like to be able to shape and influence nations. For instance Africa, instead of pouring money and resources into countries that makes little impact go in and train, manage and build what is needed. Then once a goal has been reached slowly release the product of your guidance over to those in the country, dont do it suddenly but over time and phase out of it. China is doing this and having an unseen but massive influence in Africa and elsewhere.
The UK i would not say is sitting on the Fence, but it shouts lots of rhetoric but is failing to back that up with action much the same with the UN in ways. People in this country fail to see the massive soft power potential of our armed forces. This would test the armed forces infrastructure and training. Soft power also allows you to build freinds, contacts, influence nations from the ground up and improve your own image within other nations.
For instance if the UK went into Zimbabwe and rebuilt the nations infrastructure then all the rubbish people were spouting would be false, however nations do sort themselves out after a time so that has to be weighed up. Personally with Zimbabwe as an example we can do things better than they can themselves it is no accident Rhodesia was the richest african nation at one point and was called the breadbasket of africa now it is the basket case of africa.
FlubbaObligatory thats why all i advocate is a moderate manpower increase to 300,000. Thats not huge by any measure. That would bring the British armed forces to a bit above the Bundeswehr.
As to who i wanted to attack that would be nobody, i mentioned the French in the last comment from jest as they have been invaded many a time. But to reply to a saying with another – “If you want peace, prepare for war”. The simple fact is that it is in human nature to confront others and it is better to be prepared when the time comes.
Furthermore wars now and in the future are likely to be low tech requiring manpower over technology with ‘Boots on the Ground’ increasing the armed forces allows for better harmony.
Matt i grasp what you are saying. But i for one would not like to sit on my **** i would get involved but not in daft hopeless misadventures i would do a lot of training with foreign militaries mainly the smaller ones to show that we know what we are doing.
Carriers are still very necessary IMHO as they allow entry to a nation or can be used defensively such as in the Falklands. You cant go nukeing people for little things where carriers would be better or SSGN’s better still.
OT- I wonder who would side with each as well, it would really show what countries thought of the UK and France. I might also want to get involved in things like Darfur or Rhodesia/Zimbabwe i know thats very Imperialist as some people may say but thats my opinion.
FlubbaHell i would be for a massive stupidly sized Military if the people liked it we could get it. Look at the NHS for example it costs massive amounts of money for little benefit apart from it employs 1,300,000 people, what great value for money it gives. If we binned benefits we could have an armed forces that is massive and powerfull. It would employ people, it would also be of massive benefit to the nation as the people would be better educated, fitter and have more respect for life. Furthermore not to mention the fact that we could take the French if we wanted to stop them surrendering to the next freindly caller. It would also be of massive benefit to manufactuing and we could sell decent kit abroad.
Are people also forgetting that this nation once had over 5 carriers and hundreds of ships in the fleet during peacetime. We also had an army in the hundreds of thousands spread throughout the world. The RAF had thousands of aircraft again all over the world and made in the UK.
It’s feasible easily so, but realistically the public and people of this nation would need to become more enlightened in general. I dont regard the nation i live in with that high a respect anymore, we rely too much upon the state and fight like feral beasts in the steets. We moan and moan about things yet do not realise how much better our lives are than others. Even the respectable people i cannot respect they are so blinded about subjects they like to discuss that it is beyond logic. Such topics include the armed forces, they say they respect them and think they should get better kit, better pay etc but then complain they dont get paid well enough themselves.
All i would advocate for the Armed Forces is an increase in Manpower to 300,000 total and defence money spent wisely and the percentage of GDP brought up to 4%. Even with the current 2.3% we could do far better than we are, if you do some looking there is massive amounts of waste from the fact that there are 88,000 MoD civil servants on better pay than a squaddie, to the amount of money wasted in procurement and finding clever ways to ‘save’ money such as PFI’s.
Oh! and one last point try and learn to structure sentences so they are readable. You know who you are. Im here to read not do jigsaw puzzles.
FlubbaF-35b fair points but if the Afghan air force bombed my neighbours they would need a rather big bomb for the collateral to get me.
As for this wee discussion on the T45 then i agree with Grim for pure AAW we could get by with 6, just, but we really NEED 8 to protect out assets when they are deployed against a lower tier threat. I would still have 12 though as it would allow me to protect my assets to a better level against a moderate air force.
When Mr or Mrs CVF goes for a wander not to anywhere in particular but just a cruise like the USN do i would like it to be accompanied by a T45 and a C1. If you were going to do Falklands v2 i would have at least 2 T45’s glued to the carrier and her group as well as a couple of C1’s looking for subs etc. The problem really comes with any possible amphib assaults against someone who has an air force. Then you really need more to protect the landings the fleet and the supply chain. But i really doubt that scenario will happen and if it does the USA will no doubt be there.
FlubbaNo we dont have the SDB not even the yanks have started using it fully they still prefer bigger JDAM’s. Bombs are still used a hell of a lot and they always will be SDB will have a bigger share of the drops but big JDAM’s will still be used on buildings.
War = Death yes that is correct hence why the message should be “dont fu(k with us” not we care so much about your ‘Human Rights’ we wont kill anyone. We treat our enemies with so much care and grace. The civvies must realise if they want guys with guns to go home they need to either help them or kill more of them.
The state of our country is shocking never mind the navy. But yes the navy is in one hell of a mess thanks to politicians thinking we are part of continental Europe just because they never take the ferry to France or Belgium. The state of our coastal forces is amazing we dont have a clear coastal authority yet we have a huge EEZ and coastline.
FlubbaFirst of all Hello!
J2222, SLBM’s are not vulnerable to S300 but S400 does have some capability against ballistic missiles but not long range missiles which have a diffrent flight path. Even then the chances with any BMD system are slim at best hence why the USA is rolling out such a wide range of options from Airborne Laser to PAC3 to Ground based midcourse defense. There is a whole system being built to try and knock down some ICBM’s. Furthermore with SLBM’s you dont get enough warning to take much action against them.
Cruise missiles are easier in some ways to defend against and a hell of a lot cheaper. The cruise missile route was thought about and decided against for some good reasons by the larger nations.
In regards to cost it is miniscule compared to other things. The social security budget each year is something like £160 BILLION a year and your worrying about spending £2bn a year on nukes it does not stack up IMHO.
Cruise missiles as others have pointed out dont have the same punch so they simply dont have the same deterrence affect.
We do drop 2,000lb JDAM’s on city targets, You might have missed Iraq and NATO op’s against serbia.
In regards to we wont attack someone with Nukes and the system will never be used it think that is part of the point it’s a deterrent. That in ways is like saying the NHS is useless as we will all die eventually.
Kev is right btw the government has so many problems that are a much bigger mess and more costly than Trident. There are many problems with the NHS and social security that cost billions each year but no they wont touch them as it would be cuts to the biggest drains on the nations resources.
Btw im not attacking the people of the NHS just the way it’s run.
FlubbaThe Doc that is all very true as sad as it seems the nation has went to the dogs. Im not sure about the plan to buy 5 SSBN’s i know there are always plans to buy more than what we get thanks to the Government.
The Detterent does work and it’s not as expensive as people think, IMHO the police et al need their orwelian powers reduced and lots of recent legislation ripped up and burned terrorism is working as it is allowing the Governments of nations to take even more control of the people. A few people being blown up now and then is better than having all the citizens of the nation constantly being watched as sick as it seems that my view.
I agree the media control things anywhere in the world they have more power than anyone they play god with world issues and dont care about truth and honesty. Information does not come to you, you have to go to it. The truth is out there but it is a narrow winding path to what you want some choose to follow that path while others simply take the straight one to the news service they want to follow.
National Service would work some wonders if it was brought back to this nation it continues to work well in Northern European nations as it was never dropped by the soft creatures that control us.
FlubbaI dont think it should increase weight that much unless the retractable hangar is GRP and if it is the permament hangar could be as well.
Basically move the structure forward and have it open all the time, maybe i know f**k all about ship design but i dont think weight would be an issue. In regards to costs would a big metal box cost more than a not-used before retractable hangar.
I doubt we will see them tbh, if you read my other post and looked at the piccy and grasped what i meant i think that is out C3 right there, working hull design and not too big.
FlubbaI know it has a retractable hangar but i would like the full sized proper thing, looking at the side view on the website i would move the RHIBS on the side forward a tad and have them in alcoves maybe and have the hangar on top of this, The 30mm guns should be fine where they are. I would also eliminate the VLS system in the structure on the flight deck.
I dont think it’s asking much of the design to do this but i may be wrong.
EDIT: If you could get these built for £120mln a go i would say it would be ideal, any suggestion on how much one would cost?
FlubbaSit around my lovely warm wood burner laughing at people who think all will be dandy because the Goverment said so.
Ok i dont have leccy but im still warm and have food thanks to a large garden.
I personally like decentralised power generation such as local CHP units burning shredded office paper or where i live the sawmill waste, Which is where we get most of our wood from just pop down and get some.
FlubbaAhh! Thanks for pointing that out Al i didn’t really know as i looked at it and thought Hmmm! AI for Artificial Intelligence when nope it’s Al.
Im gonna do some reading on ASROC maybe the FAS website or others will be a good read at least their stuff is accurate.
I like the Absalon for the cost vs potential, However i would swap the Thales Smart-S for Artisan and put some VLS cells on the weapons deck and generally give it a british weapons fit, 114mm gun and 2 phalanx etc.
I would employ the Absalon as a C2 with 2 attached C3’s and a tanker like a mini task force. The C3’s are the point of contact with people such as when doing anti-piracy and drug work, The C2 provides more firepower and protection than the C3, storage and facilities such as cells on the flex deck, hospital facilities anything you can think of really.
They could do most missions such as Mine Warfare, Training foreign navies, humanitarian work, maritime security they alone with no extra assistance but when needed the big shiny toys could arrive. They are basically extremely flexible as you will know. Im preaching to the believer i think:)
Astutes for C1 would best fit the given role, best ASW platform and best land attack platform, only problem is you cant really see them which means they have no Gunboat diplomacy threat. C1 as a DDH would fit something like a Hyuga class with a TAS i know this has been mentioned before. You are a sub man and i dont blame you if technology keeps going i think ships may be in some trouble.
My C3 would still stick with Venator with a hangar. I think a great cheap option for C3 would be an adapted river class with a stern ramp and a longer aft section with room for some containers and storage beneath a helicopter deck that is high like where the life rafts are at the rear. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/HMS_Mersey-1.JPG see that picture should help you picture what im on about.
Selling T45’s seems unrealistic unless we build the 6 more we need and build 12 C1’s using the same hulls then we might get cost down enough that other nations will take it seriously, but who would you sell to? Saudi yes but they would only need a few Brazil maybe but i see them wanting to develop their own kit.
Personally i would have used ESSM with our vessels as it is a great missile and much longer ranged than Aster 15 and CAMM, it can also be quad packed. The UK could get Raytheon to make us an Active version which is still possible.
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