For the benefit of the Wing Commander, somebody really should include ” Get in and sit down” into the pre-flight checks.
I’ve puzzled over this sentence for a bit.
I think it means some pilots didn’t enjoy flying the Vulcan?
Moggy
Sorry about all the long words one after the other -but well done!
You do realise that she is Ginger Baker’s daughter, don’t you?
Yeah, and he once ran a band called “Ginger Baker’s Air Force” as well. Never got the Album cover though.
I would if I was the bloke who would get to fly it.
“Give us another million quid so I can fly a Vulcan.”
I can see where he’s coming from.
Moggy
I knew very many Vulcan pilots who would not have required any incentive towards accepting any opportunity whatsoever offering the chance of getting off of flying the beasts.
Yes the geodetci construction was ported over from airships for which it was emininently suitable, especially the sort of size airships they were building back then.
I think that it was probably overtaken by other developments after the war, the need for pressurisation, developments in metallurgy and also other fixing methods such as redux bonding. If you can make something work by a simpler cheaper, lightere method, then that is the route that will be chosen.
Ingenious thoguh they were, it strikes me that a lot of Barnes Wallis’ inventions dont seem to have longevity, geodectic construction, bouncing bombs and even variable geometry (swinging) wings all seeming to have had their time. Compare this to Whittle’s jet engine or some of the aerodynamics developed by the likes of Prandtl.
100%. I note you are an engineer and as such I’m sure you appreciate better than I do the link between the available technology at the time and the perfect solution. Perhaps this puts Barnes Wallis in context on reflection.
Regarding Whittle, one has to admire his pragmatism in using a centrifugal compressor ,which was arguably the most practicable engineering solution at the time. The initial German axial compressors certainly ran into huge structural and fatigue problems whilst being a better theoretical approach. However where are we now?
Technology has moved on- as it always does ,changing the balance of options available to the designer and engineer and often allowing initially rejected options to be re-examined. For example, we look at engineering morphing structures to give us aerodynamic flexibility. I reckon Wallis reincarnated would have leapt on this one!
Bid now up to 300 quid I see.
( You could build a Turbulent for that when I were a lad – and still have change.
But there again, I was lucky.)
]I seek any info on aircraft that was being designed by Ernst Heinkel AFTER the WW2[/I]
Constructed is a different story.
potez-heinkel CM191
Hardly a Heinkel design I would have thought ,being basically a four seat Magister with Marbore VI’s
IInpact, if I remember correctly, only did three kits (1/48 again) Flycatcher, Bulldog and Siskin(?).
Roger Smith.
They also did a Fury and a Gladiator -don’t think they ever did a Siskin, more’s the pity .
Then there was a their 1/48 range of pre WW1 models ,Boxkite, Deperdussin, Antoinette, Bleriot, Avro Biplane & Triplane. A Valkyrie and Bristol Prier were promised but i don’t think they appeared. Did them all as a teenager instead of studying ; they were fully rigged -the Boxkite was fun in that respect.
The Wrights weren’t perfect, and as you rightly say their configuration was something of an aeronautical dead end. But in the second half of 1908 their machine and their flying ability was so far ahead of those on this side of the Atlantic as to be almost embarrassing.
The reason why the Wrights went from pioneers to virtual has-beens in barely a decade could be the subject of a book in itself. Obviously Wilbur’s death in 1912 was a factor. So too was the long argument between both Wrights, (later Orville solo), and Glenn Curtis over his claims that Samuel Pierpoint Langley’s 1903 machine was capable of flight.
Ultimately the point is that they showed the way for all that followed, and were at their very peak in 1908.William
I would agree on their undoubted flying ability, due to their approach to aircraft stability and controllability requiring it. I would also agree as to their being at a peak in 1908. I wonder though as to their actual practical contribution to aviation. Can it be reasonably argued, for example, that Bleriot’s flight across the channel in 1909 would have been delayed even one day without the Wrights? A comparison between that machine and a modern light aircraft perhaps underlines the longer term irrelevency of the Wrights to mainstream aeronautical development.
Their bitter arguments with the Smithsonian and Curtis as well as their wider patent fights regarding lateral control are certainly part of a bigger story and again ,I agree, these activities seemed to consume a great part of their energies. The later contractual binding of the Smithsonian to accept and also then to foster the Wrights’ claims as part of a larger American propaganda campaign are areas for dispute and bitterness even now in some arenas. For example, I cannot think of any other nation that specified in its Air Attaches TOR’s to further the American claims for the Wrights first flight.
(There was a book, “History by Contract” ,who’s author’s name I have temporarily misplaced, that dealt with this murky saga in some considerable depth.)
But then why the need to do the same in 1908- almost four years later? The European competition was by then long flying off unassisted with wheeled undercarriages , which is the most demanding phase regarding power over weight in a normal flight profile. These facts would not have been appreciated by the popular press at the time. In addition, the Wrights flew at very low level indeed and seemed reluctant to demonstrate altitude performance.
In accepting their undoubted contribution, one has to put it in the perspective of the big picture which clearly shows a dead-end approach in many ways when compared to developments in Europe, perhaps underlined by the total absence of any really significant American contribution to aviation until well after the First World War. What happened then is common cause (despite their not actually attaining an independent Air Force until 1947).
I thought that manoeverability was one of the negative points regarding the YF-23.
However it , like the F-16 XL and F-20 , was still a fine machine.
Any more news from you experts out there on its alleged reincarnation as the start point for an attack aircraft?
Sorry who in the right mind thinks a Vulcan would actually increase or attract crowds like that.
If you did a poll in any average high street in the UK tomorrow, do you honestly think Mr & Mrs Average would
(a) give a monkeys about the Vulcan;
(b) actually know what one is; and
(c) it would actually sway them when it came to attending an airshow or not.What complete and utter bs.
Years ago I was sitting with the FAA historic flight at, I think, Biggin.The Sea Fury and Swordfish were in attendance. In the words of CPO Ron Gourlay at the time:
“That mate, is a Spitfire and that one over there is a Tiger Moth, according to the average Dad in the crowd.”
Nothing changes.
The first point is that the Wrights didn’t have to use a catapult. Theychose to for the sake of conveinece, which is not quite the same thing, I would suggest.
William
“Before their experiments had progressed far in 1904 the Wrights saw that a better method of launching the machine was needed. They decided that a derrick with a falling weight would be the simplest and cheapest device”
Fred C. Kelly The Wright Brothers
(The authorised biography)
(I’m trying to find the full names and history of the pilots -N.Stack and S.L.Turner[/QUOTE]
Probably Neville Stack. His son T.N. Stack (Tom Neville Stack) rose to Air Rank in the R.A.F.
He is actually referred to in the Putnam Airspeed book in the entry on the Viceroy ( Capt. T. Neville Stack) and in a lot of contemporary acounts. (E.g. Penrose’s British Aviation – Widening Horizons)