Yes I agree with the analogy of the North American F-86 Sabre being a great WVR fighter. But saying this, it was surpassed somewhat by the MiG-17 Fresco, which learnt and adopted the lessons of the MiG-15. I’ve always thought it a great pity that North American Aviation never strived to squeeze similar adaption of it’s F-86 design into a pseudo-like MiG-17, before leaping into their F-100 Super Sabre. I’m of the belief that the F-86 still had plenty of good life in it – especially when considers the hard earned (and ignorant) lessons that had to be re-learnt over the skies of Vietnam!

For me it would have to be the Vought F-8 Crusader. Unfortunately its obscurity outweighed this known trait! I would have loved to have seen the WVR capability of the Vought’s proposed V-1000 derivative of the Crusader (a low-cost, light-weight (having much of its carrier-compatibility accessory’s removed) variant!

Then there is the General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon! I credit this design (and the Light Weight Fighter / Air Combat Fighter program it derived from) in not just bring back the realities of WVR into the realms of modern aerial warfare; the USAF’s appreciation of the importance of quantity over quality, hence the designs affordability in numbers it could not achieve or afford in the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle (the then crown jewel of the USAF). It would be the F-16 and its unmatched manoeuvrability to which all fighters were judged by, up until the advent of the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker!

The Sukhoi Flanker series of heavy weight air superiority fighter. One can not overlook the foresight of TsAGI in collaboration with the Sukhoi Design Bureau’s ability to not just see what a threat their perceived enemy the United States F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 was and had become to the Soviet militaries philosophy. In fact the ever evolving Flanker series would not just match the likes of the F-15/F-16 in raw power-to-weight ratio, and manoeuvrability. It introduced (along with the MiG-29 Fulcrum, a quantitative leap in a complementary weapons/sensor package in the form of helmet-mounted sighting and queuing/a mixture of Vympel R-73 (AA-11 Archer), Vympel R-27 (AA-10 ‘Alamo’) air-to-air missiles/pulse-Doppler radar with track-while-scan and look-down / shoot-down capability and the OLS-27 infrared search and track (IRST).
Add to this the proliferation of sales of this large and powerful fighter, along with the incorporation of even more powerful engines, thrust vectoring and canards in later models of theFlanker series, and in my opinion, it is now the Flanker series by which all other fighter designs are measured and judged!!

Regards
Pioneer

Wow very nice shot of the Atlas Cheetah!
Those dual wing pylons don’t give a clean release do they?:eek:

Regards
Pioneer

1.45 onwards;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-uqMUA7U-k

The jag had an interesting dispersed operations ability, the significance to which they were taken seriously and developed in training I am unsure of.

Both interesting and sexy!!
It appears it has a more comfortable cross country ride than my car!

Thanks for sharing Typhoon!!

Regards
Pioneer

Originally Posted by Glendora
China is going to buy Russian Su-35. An intergovernmental agreement was signed, and a contract should follow soon according to The Voice of Russia.

I don’t know how realiable VoR is, but the article seems quite detalied. Any Russian user could confirm with other sources?

If I recall well, the possible sale of SU-35 to China was under the precondition of a substantial number of A/C to be bought in order to prevent the developing of a local type by reverse engineering the model.

I’m sorry, but how would this stop the Chinese from reverse-engineering the Su-35? The Chinese have become experts at tearing down a given weapon system peice by peice to both study and copy it. Without plans or instruction!! Are the Russian’s truely this nieve?

Regards
Pioneer

For what it’s worth………..my 20-cents worth……………

I think Iraq as a military has had the #%it knocked out of it as a professional force, after all these decades.
I do not know if they have the infrastructure or professionalism to operate, let alone maintain such sophisticated / maintenance intense beasts like the Ka-52, AH-64, Mi-28, let alone the likes of the Mi-24/35 Hind
I think the Iraqi Air Force is going to have to learn to crawl before it walks for a long time yet. I’m very dubious about the way in which they are going to operate the F-16’s!!
For me I would say that the A-129 Mangusta would be a cost effective platform in both terms of purchase and maintenance costs and capability!
But saying this, I think for at least a decade to come, the Iraqi Air Force (if it survives) would be better off simply operating the versatile, cost effective and workman-like Mil Mi17V5 in both the transport and fire-support role!

P.S. In regards to Fedaykin’s

WZ-10 … not a chance. Iraq has no defence relations with China as it stands and the WZ-10 isn’t even in full service with the China Army yet. The WZ-10 production will probably be busy for a long time meeting domestic needs.

I’m not so sure we should under estimate the PRC. Even though as you state that Iraq and PRC has no defence relations. I would be very cautious to in the PRC’s ability to smell an opportunity to capitalise on such known shortfalls. The PRC has again and again shown that it is more than willing to gift money, engineering and expertise in helping a down and out nation. It places very little want in return, is willing to disregard concerns like human rights and ethnic hatred. In return the PRC’s offer of friendship, and defence relations with Iraq could be a powerful and effective tool , which
1/ could jump-start the WS-10 foreign exposure and sales! (not to mention follow on weapon’s sales of PRC origin)
2/ Undermined the United States
3/ Secure strategic resources (Oil)
4/ Put PLA personal and facilities into the Middle East

Regards
Pioneer

for many year RNZAF pilots have been flying fast jet in Aus -UK – US – Canada with a good number flying F-18’s I think that the US and Aus would like NZ to have this capability. now moving on what other countries might be up for this program and what aircraft types might be offered as I only used f-18 with NZ as they could get logistic/Maintenance/ Training support from Aus

I to would like to see the RNZAF regain a fixed-wing combat capability!
I was so saddened to hear the NZ Government’s refusal of the ex-Pakistani F-16’s offered to it by the U.S. Government, for such a good deal and price 😡
But I think the reality is the RNZAF, as a product of it’s Government would have struggled to fund the maintainability of these jets.
I think it would be more sensible and realistic for the RNZAF to operate the likes of the BAe Hawk 200 in a multi-role capacity. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to operate and maintain!!

Regards
Pioneer

[QUOTE=thobbes;1993224].
In the 1950s and 1960s the US provided thousands of jet fighters to NATO and allied airforces as well as subsidising production of foreign produced fighters such as Dassault Mystere.
QUOTE]

Ah now these were the days!!

Regards
Pioneer

As much as I’d like to see fast jets over Auckland, the RNZAF and New zealand as a whole doesn’t need them. The A-4s we had were a token capability anyway.

I think its both sad and ironic that RNZAF Skyhawk’s spent more time and money acting as targets for the RAN 😡

Regards
Pioneer