Seems that the USAF and the USN are fully prepared for the eventual F-35 cancellation, with their respective stealth strike jet and the continued purchase of the Super Hornets + Silent Hornet upgrade. The only service without a contingency plan is the USMC.

I’m not going to get bogged down in this! But I’m wondering……… Do you think that the U.S. could really have learned from the JSF/F-35 program, and actually design, develop and field a better and more efficient (and more cost effective) aircraft? “I don’t want this to become another ‘for or against’ argument about the F-35! It just seems to me that the United States is incapable of conducting a defence program that blows out in terms of cost, in-service time frame etc………

Regards
Pioneer

U.S. Army officials said to back new scout helicopter

To be honest and frank, I can not get my head around just how much time, money the U.S. Army and tax payers has been waisted in attempting to field a ‘new scout helicopter’. I’m amazed that Congress would allow the U.S. Army another bite of the cherry!!
This whole saga has been going on for decades!
And its such an important role!!

Regards
Pioneer

C-27J has it’s pluses in rough field capabilities, cargo weight/dimensions, and range,
but either those factors matter enough to ‘kick out’ other competitors, or they don’t matter and price will determine the issue…
(AFAIK, there is no ‘trade space’ being considered for such things, as how the USAF evaluated Boeing and Airbus tankers)
Is this contest using ‘lifetime’ price, or upfront?

The potential selection of the C-27J, could be looked at with a positive, due to IAF taking the C-130J into its iservice! What with it’s compatible engines and cockpit arrangements!!
But then again I think the Indian’s could not overlook the history of operating former Soviet transport aircraft – the likes of the An-26/32’s, which have proven themselves to be very tough!!

Regards
Pioneer

In Yefim Gordon’s book Flankers – The New Generation it says “Even using the station which afforded the shortest take-off run of only 105m, the Su-27K could take of easily with a full fuel and weapons load. The ski jump was inclined 15 deg; the normal glidescopre angle during final approach was 4deg.” and “The naval Flanker had 12 hardpoints instead of ten; still the ordnance was limited to 6500 kg because of the fighters higher MTOW.”

Thank you Andraxxus!!
I love Yefim Gordon’s work!
Does anyone know if he has put out a book in his series on the Su-24 Fencer??

Regards
Pioneer

I’m a big fan of the Flanker series and what the Soviets/Russians were able to achieve.
But one thing about the non-catapult take off method of the ‘carrierized’ Flankers (whether it be Russian or Chinese) is that as powerful and capable the Flanker, its fuel/weapons capability has to be somewhat limited on take off.
Has anyone got pics of carrier Flankers with a substancial weapons load on take off??

P.S. I’ll be the first to admit it, that I am critical of the PRC’s utilization of other nations technology (both legal and illegaly aquired!!). But from what I have read, the IJN also followed this path initialy, using British technology and know-how to develop its carrier development! It’s not the first or last time we will see this.

Regards
Pioneer

My simple 20-cents worth, for what its worth………

United States – I think that the United States had a good thing going with its initial conception of its ATF (F-22) fighter competition. But the reality of it is that its development costs, long and drawn out lead-time to entering service and of course its inherent difficulty and costly maintenance has been its undoing. After all regardless of all its stealth technology (=$$$$$), the proliferation of the Flanker series makes the numbers originally envisaged to that actually afforded would still make the life of the F-22 difficault to say the least! Add to this the proliferation of AEW/AWACS assets that many potential enemy’s now employ post Cold War, was never factored in.

As for the F-35……… well we have all been there and said that! For me the painful gestation period for the F-35, which was meant to be a not to much more expensive replacement for the F-16, F/A-18 ………. has failed dismally. The JSF program was tailored to strike first, with fighter capability second! Many nations I have been hypnotized by the political/industrial jingo that its a world beater fighter aircraft. Once again the likes of the Flanker series with its modern radar and air-to-air missiles, which have been developed to counter stealth has negated what the JSF was promised and what it is. I originally liked and favoured the JSF concept when it was conceived. But I think all the eggs have been put into a small and costly basket, which only industry has benefited.

I think it ironic, that the United States who spent so much time, money and resources to pioneer and develop stealth technology, has handed so many of its basic secrets and fundamental principles to its potential adversaries, who are not just developing their own stealthy 5th gen fighters, but they have been able to do this much easier due to the openly available theoretical and technical info afforded by the U.S. military and industry. Partly because of this a potential adversary / competitor is able to save a substantial amount of R&D, by simply basing their own designs on the technology based on that developed by the United States, at the cost of the United States! I would think the U.S. would be more prudent with the disclosure of its state-of-the-art weaponology! After all it showed it was successfully able to do this with the likes of the ATF, ATB for more than a decade.
My only hope is that the next generation U.S. Fighter can be developed with the true lessons learned from the F-22/F-35 can be properly and productively employed, along with the three major U.S aerospace corporations not milking the cow!!

China (PRC) – they have been and are renowned for a combination of indigenous ingenuity, as well as being exceptionally well versed in reverse engineering other nations technology and weapons systems (legally and illegally)! The PRC has been very cleaver in capitalizing on the America’s, Britain’s, France’s, Israel’s and Russia’s political and industrial greed, who have been more than willing to sell their hearts and soles for financial gain. Very quickly the PRC was able to speed ahead in both its understanding and physical possession of state-of-the-art weapons systems, as well as their application. But I somewhat skeptical as yet to China’s embankment on its own stealth fighter programs. Firstly I’m partial to think that they have once again incorporated foreign technology into their stealth fighters (J20) whether it be through purchasing, cloning or espionage. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not ridiculing their efforts or their means – ‘if its there then use it’ (after all the Soviet’s based a lot of their early jet engines on the German and British turbojets. As to did the United States on British jet engine technology). It is still early days of the J20. It is one thing to fly a prototype shell. It’s another thing to develop, manufacture and put into operational service a fully fledged 5th gen stealth fighter. Then there is the question of China’s willingness to export such aircraft to questionable nations?
But saying this, I believe that one should never underestimate your potential adversary!

Russia – I’m very surprised and impressed with the T-50/PAK FA program thus far. What after the time, effort and costs of the Su-47 Berkut and MiG 1.44 designs. It will be interesting to see if Russia is going to be able to develop and field this exceptional design in substantial numbers it deems is required (although the excellent Flanker means that there is no desperate sense of urgency!). If they do pursue the T-50 as its primary 5 gen fighter, it might mean the death of MiG’s future!
But looking at the nationalist support of both Russian politics and the need to appease the Russian military, it looks as if it will become Russia’s premiere fighter.
I see one advantage for the T-50 future is the want and persevered need of many air forces to be seen with such a trend setting ‘stealth fighter’. An almost ‘if you don’t have one, your not in the game‘ attitude has prevailed around the world – like that of the early jet age and supersonic flight! Because of this demand.
India’s appreciation of it’s own nationalist outlook on its geographic position, along with PRC and Pakistan on its boarders, along with its appreciation of its military’s needs and threats, means that India will be a strong project and financial supporter of this fighter design. Add to this Russia’s well exercised willingness to sell to anyone and everyone in terms of weapons systems, I can see the production variant of the T-50 potentialy becoming one of the most affordable (purchase anyway) and numerically proliferated stealth fighters in the near future.

Japan – This is an unknown quantity in my opinion! For unless the Japanese are willing to abolish its self-imposed weapons export band, this will potentially be the most expensive 5 gen fighter per aircraft! I don’t doubt Japan’s ability or resolve to field their own 5th gen fighter, what with its concerns of a rising PRC and South Korea!

South Korea – This is the interesting one in my opinion! Like Japan, I do not doubt South Korea’s abilities or resolve. But I wonder how much of their proposed 5th gen fighter can be built without the United States technology being used – and hence restricted! The interest by Indonesia is both interesting, as Indonesia would clearly see PRC’s growth a concern, as well as Australia’s so-called purchase of the troubled F-35. Export will surly be an important focus of the trade conversed South Korean’s – if they are able to minimize foreign systems reliance!

Thanks for your time

Regards
Pioneer

Dude, the title should change to:

What UK should do if Argentina gets the new stealthy fighter.

We will see the fatty or the slim is better. LOL.

Sorry to diverge off topic!
But what

stealth fighter

is Argentina looking at acquiring Pinko??

Regards
Pioneer

Unfortunately for the Indian’s I think their Nationalist drunkenness, has got in the way of this indigenous design! They failed to seriously take into consideration that teething problems can and often come with such a advanced approach to designing a state of the art combat aircraft, let alone one of multi-role (jack of all trades). I think they have bitten more off than they could chew!

Like that of the PRC, India’s claim and so much rhetoric about indigenous ingenuity and skill, is undermined by one of the principle components of a modern combat fighter – its engine! For as is the case with the PRC’s J-10 fundamental reliance on a foreign engine (Russian AL-31FN). The Indian’s have had to rely on the United States to provide the initial engines for the prototypes, then the French to assist in its plagued indigenous GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri turbofan, before finally electing to power the design with the General Electric F414 as the fundamental heart of its Tejas / LCA.

Finally if things were not difficult enough, the Indian Government / Military decided to add a major complication to a project already under extreme strain – that of a carrier-based derivative of the Tejas / LCA for use by the Indian Navy!

As for me, if I was in India making the choices and decisions, I would have brought the rights to the defunct F-20 Tigershark from Northrop, and tooled up to build me an exceptional and affordable light weight, multi-role fighter, which was powered by the GE F404, and if need be, probably could have been modified to take the even more powerful General Electric F414!!

Regards
Pioneer