4X-ILWhat are you trying to say? you say that the shells landed 250 meters away, and then that the Palestinian hospial took the splinters of the shells out of their bodies?
By the way, I do believe that this incident wasn’t a result of Israeli fire. An exploded shell leaves parts of it behind. If it was an Israeli shell, the Palestinians would have immediately showed its remains.
But anyway, I leave the final conclusions to the investigators.
No,
THEY said it was Israeli shell, i’m saying it was Palestinian mine, in both cases their will be splinters.
4X-ILBoth of these opinions are totally irrelavent until the end of the investigation regarding this terrible incident.
1. Shelling time doesn’t fit with the injury time.
2. All the shells was fired from the same battery and all of the other shells landed more than 250 meters away from the place.
3. Hamas militants came to the place 1 minute after the ” boom ” and collected ALL pieces from whatever left from the shell.
4. The Palestinian hospital analyzed the bodies of the palestinians BEFORE they sent them to Israeli hospital and took all the splinters left from the shells from them, and gave the wounded people to Israel without the proofs of the shells.
5. Hamas is now refusing to give Israel the pieces left from the shells.
After Pallywood And Muhamad Al Durah frauds, and I have no doubt it is not even 5% from their lies, doing 1+1 is very very simple.
4X-ILIf I want to go to the beach over there, how deep should I dig my trench, so I have something to dive into when IDF arty upsets my beach party?
Lucky you don’t need to worry about the IDF, but from your own goverment placing mines on ” your ” beach, cause this is what killed them, not the IDF’s shells.
4X-ILusually when you have more than 50%, you’re the majority, so its more reasonable to call a country consist 76% jews, the state of the jews, and not Muslims who consists 15% from the country population.
And say,
What the hell does it matter how the HAMAS was created?
does it matter if it was a group from 1920 or 2005 who already done dozens of terrorist acts againts Israel, and is now the goverment of the country?
Not its not.
4X-ILLook,
Of course that there’re very few right and wrong in here,
But the fact is that Israel always, and will always, will be the one who response, and not the one who bomb civilians because we have some religous duty, or just because we wants to.
We can’t sit quitely while they’re firing rockets on us.
Lets say it was in your country ( wherever it is ), and the next one, which you’re not in good relation with, will start firing dozens of rockets daily, on your freaking cities?!
what will YOU do?
I just don’t get it, what do you want us to do right now?
none of you came with a solution other than the Hamas to recognize Israel and will sit to talk, none.
Israel’s done with be the first one to act, and than suffer from it.
after we evacuated Gaza Strip everything only went 100% worst, and now you want us to do the same, only that if things will go worst now, it can be a disaster, and than what?
After they will fire rockets on Ben Gurion International airport, and it will be grounded?
Or after they will fire some Stinger at a commercial aircraft and 300 people from around the world will die, and than what?
What do you think the IDF will do than?
I WONT be surprised if we will place one of our MLRS brigades and destroy a whole village, why they can and we doesn’t?
We control our civilians in most cases so they wont do anything to the Palestinians, why they can’t?
Why they can kill our civilians, but because we’re a country and not trash we can’t?
Don’t get me wrong,
I’m 120% againts the IDF to go to their level and do anything to civilians, but do you think if it was Russia for example, they will response like we did?
Or you don’t remember what Russia done to the rebels from Chechnia?
How they didn’t allowed to the press come in, and acted freely?
So why Israel need to be any different?
Why we need to get ****** up because we’re part of the UN?
What we need to do if everything we’re doing againts those terrorist doesn’t work, and Israelis still getting killed because of them?
Households getting ruined daily in Sederot and Kibbutzim arround, but we still doesn’t have anything to do.
Do you think that after they will see us killing civilians on purpose they will keep on doing that?
They killed 3 Israelis, we killed 300, 1 month after the entire place will be quite like a carpet.
Riots near the Israeli-Gaza border? trying to break the gates, and destroying the whole, and than an Apache come and kill some of them with a Hellfire, they will keep on doing that?
We will destroy every training camp they have in Gaza, and they will die hundreds daily, they will keep terrorize Israel, and if they would, for how long? a month? a two?
After they will see that each Israeli worth 10 of them, they will understand that each time they will do such thing, the effect will be the same, and hopa, we have ” PEACE “.
And this is again, only, and ONLY hypothetical, and this is exacly how the rightists in Israel thinks everyday.
Lucky, most of Israel ARE leftists, and we know hurting civilians is NOT the way.
But I’m too, like everyone else, can’t not to think sometimes, what will happen if we will?
Personally, I wouldn’t be able to live in a country who done such thing, and I’m very happy we’re not.
But somehow, we NEED to fight, and we target terrorists, not civilians.
Civilians are getting in the way, and the only one you need to blame is the terrorists who use those civilians as human shiled, not us who target the terrorists who kill our civilians.
4X-ILNo the Kurnass have all retired and were no longer kept in flying condition. Similar thing with Ahit. Except the few examples of 102 sqn, used as trainer only, received a cockpit-ugrade for that purpose only. Without related and updated EW-suit, those are no longer capable for real combat-missions.
The Netz is 26 years in service now and have suffered its share of attrition losses. It is childish to give delivery numbers only. In the 80s it was common in the IDF-AF to w/o ~ fighters per year due to accidents only.The survivors of the Baz werre not all upgraded. Some of the ex USAF examples were used-up for spare-parts only.
It is easy to find pics of those in the web in places like Tel-Nof, Hatzerim-museum a.s.o.
By the way, there were no more than 60 Kurnass upgrades with 119 and 201 sqn.
Maybe in the meanwhile 47 Suefa arrived. So far 253 sqdn is operational only, when 119 is catich-up to reach full operatinality in 2007.
In the meanwhile the number of Netz is reduced accordingly. When good informed really, you will know the Israel is looking for buyers for those surplus Netz for some time.
The budget-share of the IDF-AF is not rising. Just to keep pace with the constant need for upgrades, the IDF-AF is forced to reduce its numbers accordingly. By the way a trend we well see in all AFs, forced by the need to pay for ever more expensive upgrades to stay in the top-league of avionics and smart weapons.
Well you might be right, but i really wont signed on that.
Who the hell told you only 60 Phantoms was upgraded, and for which upgrade do you reder to? the Kurnes or the Kurnes 2000 ( two different upgrades… )
Because as far as I know, all of the IAF phantoms was upgraded since 1989.
The Phantoms are retired, but they ARE beeing taking care of, and all of them ARE in flyable condition, and again, they ARE kept for immergencies.
The whole fleet of F-15 A B C D of the IAF was upgraded to ” Baz Meshupar mode “, none left without upgrade, NONE.
Yes, the IAF is looking for Netz buyers, but all of the Netz’s are currently flying regulary and 100% operational.
119 squadron is already operational, only today my sister asked me to teach her how to use her scanner in her house so she will able to scan some photographs she need of 119 sqd and do something with it.
the squad is fully operational, and we’re just about to open another one ( 25 each squad. ).
If you’ll let me see some of your wired sources it’ll be better.
If there’s any force in the IDF which I know the best, is the IAF.
4X-IL…..except for the scores and scores of them parked out in lines at Ovda, obviously!
Who are you trying to kid, and why?
Steve Rush
p.s. check out the text file attached to this post: it took me all of 5 minutes to find 127 IDF Phantoms that are withdrawn and stored at just Ovda and Hatzerim alone, all out in the open.
I’ve just asked my sister and i’ll tell you what she said.
” The Phantoms regulary ARE stored in Ovda Airforce base in Underground storage.
I don’t know what’s going on in there right now, but they might pulled them out for out sider to take a look at them ( expeditions from over sea ), because they aren’t allowed to enter to the base underground storages.
But yes, All of the phantoms and skyhawks ARE regulary beeing stored in Ovda, I don’t know about any of them beeing stored at Hatzerim or any other base in Israel, expect for a couple of Phantoms in the Hatzerim Air Force Museum “
And you can probably understand why i’ll take her side and not that TXT file.
4X-ILI think you need to go to Ovda and take a look from the hill overlooking the air base. Then come back and apologise! :diablo:
Steve Rush
Why?
I’ve been to Ovda many times.
from a total of 180-185 F-4E Phantoms Israel had, 140 +- were left, and are currently in underground bases.
4X-ILWrong.
There is not a single F-16 which Israel purchase and is not Operational.
Don’t try to teach me about the IAF Squadrons, my sister is the manager of public relation in the IAF, she’s the one organizing all expedition who’re coming to visit in the IAF squadrons.
I wont get into details about which squadron have what aircraft and where, because i’m not allowed to.
the IAF WILL have a total of 382 OPERATIONAL F-16 when the whole 102 F-16I will arrive, because 4 of the total of 386 the IAF gave to RAFAEL IAI Elbit IMI for testing of their systems, what’s called F-16ACE
I don’t know if i’m allowed to give an exact numbers of models of F-16 so for now I wont.
But in general, in 2008 – 382 F-16 from all models operational in X bases.
F-15,
71 ( If i remember correctly, it was 70 and something ) operational HEAVILY upgraded F-15 A BCD, Baz.
and the 25 F-15I Raam.
In addition to that,
There’re 140 +- F-4E Phantom ( Kurnas 2000 upgraded ) in underground bunkers,
and 110 +- upgraded A-4 Skyhawks.
only 1 Squadron of A-4 is operational, for taining of combat pilots.
the rest are reserved for immergencies.
All of the F-4 are resrved aswell.
Last time I’ve checked there were already 47 F-16I at service, not 25.
All of the F-16C and D Israel’s got are heavily upgraded with top of the art avionics suite made in Israel, the A and the B models are upgraded, but much less.
4X-ILWhat? It wasn’t Zionists who blew up the hotel? When did you guys figure time travel out and change that?
It indeed was.
But the occasion was so much different.
Not only with the hotel, with all the things those organizations done.
But they weren’t terrorists.
they’ve acted againts the British army because of the British goverment decisions.
4X-ILHey did you guys know that the original terrorist bombers in occupied Palestine were the Israelis that blew up the hotel back in the 30s? What’s good for the goose apparently isn’t good for the gander…
Another one who have no Idea what he’s talking about.
Go and read in Wikipedia about those Jewish movements, and then speak about it.
4X-ILYou need simple answers to hard questions, my friend.. You talk like husband who has been cheating his wife and beating her for past 20 years and now you come to a shrink with a question – what should I do so that she loves me again? My answer is – you should not have beaten her in the first place.. There is nothing specific you can do.. You only got two possibilities – either completely eradicate them or try to approach them as friends, as hard as it sounds.
The whole issue needs intelligent approach and takes years. Isolated actions are nothing.. Look at Europe.. Mere 65 years ago Germans were treating Slavians like cattle and killing Brits with He111s. And now? Krauts are visiting Big Ben, Brits listen to Rammstein and they together develop Eurofighters. Yes there is a certain amount of competition and arguments but it works!! And why? Because both sides really wanted peace and did everything that was necessary. Not just one isolated action or two..
You both are light years away from that.. Palestinians are eagerly training new bomb squads and you would never move out of Gaza if there was not massive external political pressure. You want your peace but all at costs of the other side, you don’t want to give up a penny and an acre of land you once had taken. That won’t go, you can bet your a$$ on that.
Now you’re making SOME progress, but still you’re having hard time with both understand, and give me an anwer.
I’ve already said that the majority of Israel wants the West Bank to be evacuated, and the only problem is how we’re doing it.
And you still didn’t gave any anwer for that.
How can we evacuate 70,000 without knowing that after this enormous effort, everything wont be any worse?!
For other thing you’ve said –
Have you ever though about what would you do if you were a Palestinian? Would you just silently live in poverty and move all your property anytime a hillbilly from Negev comes with M16 and orders you so?[/
You only prooved again that you’re not familier with the Israeli-Palestinian situation, because this kind of thing never happened, and will never happen.
4X-ILYou keep talking and talking about Israel’s a terrorist state,
But since now you havn’t gave any proof whatsoever to support what your’re saying.
You’re saying that if we’ll keep on our current way, (that BTW I have no idea what you’re saying with that, Israel is out of Gaza and is only killing terrorists from the Air and units who’s about to launch rockets into Israel ) We wont have peace, and thats we WANT that war.
But you still didn’t gave any example for that so called ” Behaviour “, so no one got anything to response, because you doesn’t even saying what is this behaviour which is so bad.
And if this behaviour IS so bad, what the HELL do you want us to do?
Let them launch rockets on Israeli cities and stay quitely while they’re doing that?!
WHAT THE HELL?
Did Israel didn’t said that when the HAMAS will recognize Israel as a state and will agree to sit down and talk, we would?!
Of COURSE we DID!
but of course We’re always the bad terrorists who kill innocents civilians for the past 6 years of the Intifada, we sent an A-bomb to Gaza and killed them all, right?
Thought we could wasn’t we? did we done it?
Can you give me 1 case from the entire Intifada that we can see Israel killing innocents civlians like they do?
Don’t you think that if they will stop everything they’re doing right now, specially launching those rockets to Israel, Israel wont get softer with the time, and will be less cruel?
It is NOT Israel’s choice of ACTION
If it was in our hands the Palestinians would’ve had a state of their own YEAAARSSS ago, but no, it is all our fault they keep shooting on Israeli cars, launching dozens of rockets a week on Israeli cities, and when we doesn’t stop them to also blow up some bus or resturan doesn’t they?
So why wony you now, honestly, give me a SOLUTION to all of this,
How Israel need to react, or in your POV, doesn’t react, when each day rockets hit in the yard of Israeli households in Israeli CITIES near gaza.
What does we suppose to do when they shoot at Israeli cars and kill everyone in it, what does we suppose to do when they put bombs near the border so when a Patrol vehicle is passing by it will blow up, or trying to get over the fence, and luckily almost never succeed ah? tell me, WHAT?
Got no anwer right? but it is still always Israel’s fault, even thought not you, and not anybody else got other solution, beside the one that THEY need to do something to show SOME, not alot, but SOME credibility.
But since only yesterday 4 rockets fell on Sederot ( Israeli city near Gaza ) I don’t see them doing any kind of effort.
4X-ILSay,
Do you know how’s the LITENING Pod of RAFAEL is dealing with LM Airborne Pod’s?
From views of Price, Performances, etc… ?
4X-ILOk,
Now you only prooved to me that you just don’t know at ALL the reality we have here.
You know from what you heard in your news, but nothing further than that.
You have no IDEA what is the real situation between the two, and you proove it all the time from the beggining.
”
What is so strange about that? IDF also does not operate without your government’s approval. “
You can’t be serious.
But I had enough.
You just have no idea what you’re talking about and i’m wasting my time.
Have a good day.
Sign In
