Generaly, as I understand it, the larger the aircraft the less sensative it is to wake turbulence from another aircraft.
Its like driving a car past a truck, as you reach the front of the truck, the air its pushing aside hits you and can often cause you to swerve a little. Pass the same truck while driving anouther of similar size or larger and you don’t feel a thing.II guess it is more or less the same with aircraft. The Bigger you are, the less effect wake turbulence has. That is not to say the An225 or A380 won’t feel it at all.
The real question is; What effect with the wake of an AN 225 or A380 have on current aircraft like the a320. 757 or 747 for example.
According to Flight Internation, ICAO are recommending an extra gap for spacing between an A380 and following traffic. They are recommended a minimum of 10 miles for approach seperation. This is in comparison to the 6mile seperation needed between a 747 and an A320 for example. This is going to cause some problems at busy airports like LAX or LHR who are going to end up loosing approach slots.
Here’s the FI article I got my info from…. you can see a graphic of the seperation distances the ICAO are recommending, alongside a comparison of current distances.
I wonder how the An-225 does about the wake turbulence. Yes, there is only 1 frame but it has been flying for many years and undertakes commercial charters.
As for sizes, An-225 is the biggest landplane – wingspan 88,4 metres versus 79,8 metres for Ai-380. It also is the heaviest – MTOW 600 tons versus 560 tons of Ai-380-800Passenger. So, one could just look at the experience with An-225 in airport and cruise operations – then compare with Ai-380-800.
How close can An-225 or Ai-380-800 get behind another aircraft and how big airport slot is, in practice, needed for an An-225 visit?
Thai Airways Concorde? Ooh, just think, LHR-BKK in, what, 4 hours?
Hardly. Singapore did lease Concordes and they did operate London-Singapore with a fuel stop in Bahrein… said to have taken 9 hours including the stop. Bahrein-Bangkok should be equally feasible, and have roughly the same trip time.
So, worst case for Boeing would be
– a huge delay in deliveries with consequent financial losses
– a number of cancellations depending on the contracts (if airlines have cancelation-option if Boeing misses particular efficiency goals).
and of course stupid comments by its competitor.I don’t think they cancel the problem, get a black cart from FAA (no certification) or crash an aircraft. After all, it is still Boeing.
Taking the SST-s, they had different degrees of success:
Concorde had 74 orders. Most were cancelled. 9 frames, however, were bought, for price 130 % the price of Boeing 747 at the time. 5 more frames were built as whitetails due to cancellations and given away for free. The 14 delivered frames were in revenue service for 27 years.
Tu-144 did enter revenue service, but was withdrawn after 55 service flights in total.
Boeing 2707 was never rolled out.
When was Boeing 2707 supposed to be delivered?
How many of the 122 orders for Boeing 2707 had been cancelled before Boeing cancelled the whole program?
Have you ever travelled in business class? People are prepared to pay extra because there is more leg room, the quality of service is better, you get get access to airline business class lounges (except if you are flying with BA), you get treated like a human being (except in BA – that’s just my experience).
There’s no point in anyone paying full economy when for few dollars more you can go business and most economy passengers are only looking for the cheapest fare and are prepared to accept the fare restrictions etc.
For a passenger paying his/her own money and unwilling/unable to accept the fare restrictions etc. there is indeed not much point in not paying a bit more for more legroom, service, lounges and human treatment.
But a business passenger? They can justify not travelling in discounted economy and instead getting full-fare economy ticket so as to have the flexibility to be in time where ordered and not need to pay for forfeited tickets. How do they normally justify spending the money on legroom, service, lounges and human treatment if they could have saved a little by having the same flexibility with a full-fare economy ticket?
Other:
EMB 145
Dehavilland Dash 8-300 + Q400
BAe 146 1/2/3And a few others I can’t remember just now.
Ah – no Concorde 🙁
I think so. They should do at that price but if you are paying full fare Economy then you could pay extra and go business class. But not that many people pay full economy rates anyway (as a daytime job amongst other things I used to calculate airline yields by class of service) preferring to pay cheap rates on APEX type tickets with a whole raft of restrictions eg can’t make any changes once booked, non refundable etc.
So how do people travelling on company business justify paying extra to get the frills of Business Class instead of getting full fare Economy tickets for their travels where flexibility is needed?
Because my company may have a particular travel policy that said for particular types of journey I was allowed to travel business class, even on relatively short intra European journeys.
Or else they are prepared to pay the extra to have the flexibility in changing flights and don’t want to have the fare restrictions inherent in APEX tickets.
Remember that the full Economy fare is often not that far below the business fare (try turning up an hour before a flight and buying a long haul ticket – it’s EXPENSIVE).
So effectively, one advantage of the Business is extra flexibility. Do the full-fare Economy tickets also have additional flexibility?
I don’t think I would upgrade to Business if I thought Economy was bad.
and the legacy carriers dont because they know they can jack up first/business class fares if they need to.
Very well. If you think Economy is good, why would you ever pay the Business or, worse, First Class fares?
Legacy carrier who offers too much frills in Economy would be in danger that both it costs a lot to provide frills to Economy, and that people no longer want to pay for Business even if they could afford to.
I would just look for another airline and with the majority of legacy carriers then there usually will be at least one other airline flying that route (due to existing bilateral agreements).
With low cost carriers, often there is no real competition on that route and probably not to that particular airport.
Ah. So low-cost carriers cannot operate if there is a legacy carrier serving the same route and airport – and are unprofitable if there is more than one low-cost carrier on the same route and airport?
There has always been two types of travellers.
Type1: Doesn’t care about the service so long as the ticket is cheap
Type2: Values service and is ready to pay that little bit extra.
Low cost airlines attract type 1, legacies attract type 2. So each market themselves for their respective client pool.
Low cost airlines appeal to those on a budget. Legacies appeal to those who don’t mind paying that little extra for the extra comfort.
But why cannot legacies attract type 1 to the Economy Class and type 2 to Business Class, simultaneously?
you’ve answered you own question mate.
Low cost airlines keep the costs low by NOT offering such services as you mention. Or at least not without having to pay for it on board.
Legacy carriers are still main stream airlines, trying to keep the traveling public that enjoy such services as part of their ticket price.
The problem is – if cutting services like seat recline, window shades or free food cuts costs of a low-cost airline then cutting the same services in the economy class would likewise cut the cost of a legacy airline.
If a low-cost airline cuts too much service, they lose their passengers to other airline or they do not fly at all, so the low-cost airline only loses income. Whereas, if a legacy airline cuts service in Economy, they lose only if the travelling public stops flying them – if the public flies in their Business instead of Economy because the Economy is deliberately bad, the airline wins.
Thus, legacies would seem to have more an incentive to offer bad service in Economy…
It is the festive season… Draw Santa’s airplane 😀
A few existing drawings:
http://www.luchtzak.be/postt14651.html
http://www.luchtzak.be/postt14341.html
Modified planes…
You might use your talents at
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/
Anyway, could someone do a Concorde in CAAC livery?
This is significant because all the originally ordered liveries save two can be found at
http://www.concordesst.com/history/orders.html
and the Iran Air one has been done:
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000857
so only CAAC is left missing…
Chapter 11?
One comment about Chapter 11:
The money to bail out businesses in Chapter 11 is taken from creditors. That includes a lot of pensions and health insurance.
Effectively, the US government is giving the businesses “bankruptcy protection” so that the creditors cannot shut the business before it burns the rest of their money.
Whereas in Europe, there have been a fair number of bailouts where the government has spent their own (taxpayers´) money.
Also, I understand that in most of Europe, pensions come from state anyway, so they are not so much affected by bankruptcy.
VLJ
Well, note that the Avcen VLJ is a STOL. Not VTOL
Which means that it requires an infrastructure of STOLports.
Copters, like Copterline on Tallinn-Helsinki run, Faroe internal lines, Gibraltar crossing and Malta-Gozo are VTOL. They require very small landing pads.
So, if you want to design a STOL craft, whether an autogiro or a STOL fixed-wing craft, what would be its advantages over conventional helicopters? Less fuel burn/longer range? Higher cruise speed?
Actually, this thread overlooks the fact that helicopters have often provided an integral element of aviation schedules across Europe. Even in England, there was a while back a LGW – LHR helicopter service.
But it has shut down. Why?
Sometimes these service may not appear within Amadeus or Sabre, or in the OAG flight guide, but they are nonetheless regular sceduled services.
And, even today, none of the domestic services within the Faroe Islands are fixed-wing… all are helicopters. even including Europe’s best value flight, for details of which see here.
Hope this is of interest.
Yes, it really is interesting.
Are there any other currently scheduled services, besides the Tallinn-Helsinki line and the Faroes?