RE: Bf109E located in India + Connection to RAFM DH-9A

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-09-02 AT 07:35 AM (GMT)]The one piece of information I would add, to what’s already on at WIX, is that Jagan, a participant in the discussions at WIX and webmaster of the Warbirds of India site http://www.warbirdsofindia.com/ , has some information on why this aircraft was taken to India. It was actually forced down by an RAF squadron personally funded by the Nizam of Hyderabad during WW2. This was probably No 152 (Hyderabad) Squadron, http://www.152hyderabad.co.uk/ , which served in the BoB, North Africa and India during WW2. If I’m not mistaken, one of the BBMF Spitfires (PS 915) carried the markings of this squadron (UM codes), at least for a period.

The Nizam was one of the wealthiest of the 500-odd Indian princes of the time, was regarded as a strong supporter of the British, and provided a great deal of financial and material support to the war effort. The display of this aircraft in India, as a war trophy, was probably a reward for the Nizam’s contributions.

Incidentally the DH-9A currently on display at the RAF Museum is also a survivor of another squadron, No 110, funded by the Nizam of Hyderabad during WW1. That squadron was in fact officially known at the time as “No 110 (Hyderabad) Squadron”, and incorporated a version of the Nizam’s crest into its squadron badge.

Regards,

Snoopy

… and yet again!!

Andy — My apologies, my notes on “Joe”‘s last flight dates weren’t where they should have been — I will let you know when I find them.

SadSack — Yes, that formation is unlikely to be repeated in a hurry, I agree … And yes, that site by Robert Quirk is a great one, for Liberator and ACSEA enthusiasts. I also have a weakness for this one, for obvious reasons 🙂 :

http://www.warbirdsofindia.com/ovb24.html

Regards,

Snoopy

Thanks — and another quick one??

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 15-08-02 AT 10:10 AM (GMT)]Gzyl, Alexis, thanks very much indeed for the updates.

If you don’t mind another quick question, can either of you remember the rough dates when you saw the B-24, in the conditions that you describe? Particularly Gzyl?

In case of interest to anyone other than myself, this particular aircraft, like at least five other B-24s which survive today (including the one at Cosford), is one of about 100-odd ex-RAF B-24s that were either derelict, or deliberately made unserviceable, at the end of WW2, in India. Out of those, the Indian Air Force and Hindustan Aircraft Ltd, by dint of much cannibalisation, restored about 40-odd to airworthy condition. The Indian Air Force flew them, primarily in a Maritime Patrol and Air-Sea Rescue role, till 1968.

The example now at Fantasy of Flight was acquired from India by Dave Tallichet, and flown to the UK in 1973. It stayed for nearly two years at Duxford (Ashley, are you listening??), during which period it swopped an engine with another former Indian B-24 passing through the UK, and underwent other restorations. In 1975 it was flown to the USA, escorted on its departure from Duxford by a Hurricane, two Spitfires and a Lancaster, of the Battle of Britain Flight. (Do I wish I’d been there … !)

It was maintained in flying condition till a few years ago; initially as “Delectable Doris”; later, as “Joe”.

Regards (and apologies, as always, for the ramble … !)

Snoopy

Really late response … but Yes, it did happen in the ME!!

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-07-02 AT 05:00 AM (GMT)]Moggy:

Not sure if you’re still interested in this, but I happen to be back at home base in India for a couple of weeks, and was rooting around among my ancient collection of aviation mags … and lo and behold, what should I turn up but an article describing the Middle-East incident I vaguely recalled!

The article is titled “One Up, Two to Go”, by AVM Tony Dudgeon, and occurs in the July 1997 issue of … er … am I allowed to mention it, on this Forum … Aeroplane Monthly. (Quick, duck, before the moderator catches this!!)

The pilot involved was Sqn Ldr Derek Ward, CO of 74 Squadron, and the aircraft was a Hurricane. The incident took place in 1942 during a flight between Amman and Gamil (near Port Said). It wasn’t a combat rescue but an unauthorised ferry flight, apparently to attend one of Glubb Pasha’s legendary parties without needing to take the extra two days’ leave to drive there and back. Unfortunately the aircraft came down somewhere in the Sinai. Sqn Ldr Ward and his passenger were rescued by a Percival Proctor, but there was a sad sequel: the rescue resulted in a notification to HQ ME regarding the unauthorised passenger, and a Court Martial for Sqn Ldr Ward. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, Sqn Ldr Ward escaped the Court Martial by the expedient of being killed in action in the Western Desert.

AVM Dudgeon says whatever needs to be said, in the article, about the conflict between the light-hearted approach of operational pilots, and the heavier view of HQs everywhere, so I won’t repeat it.

If you’re interested I’m sure you can find a copy of the article; but just in case you have difficulty let me know, and I’m happy to get a copy across to you. Regards,

Snoopy

Thanks, Jerry

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-06-02 AT 01:35 PM (GMT)]Jerry, many thanks for the info — seems to gel with what I vaguely remember. (Certainly the 137 Sqn does.)

Yes, if you can confirm (or deny!) that your recollection is correct, whenever you locate the original reference, I for one would be most grateful. Thanks again, and regards,

Snoopy

RE: Is there a Burma connection?

Thanks, Damien.

Snoopy

RE: Two in a fighter — yes, it did happen!!

Moggy:

Apart from (at least) the one incident in Europe, recounted in Al Deere’s “Nine Lives” (thanks, Kev), I think it happened at least once in the Middle East. I seem to recall reading about the ME incident, not in a book, but in a magazine — either FlyPast or, just possibly, (dare one mention it, on this Forum, Mr Ellis?) Aeroplane.

I will try and locate the article, and post the date, if you’re interested. Regards,

Snoopy