sounds like what you’re looking for is a wiener measuring contest to prove that the LCA is better.
lets get this straight my amigo.
is the LCA better? probably, the program has much more ambition than some of the other comparable aircraft.
but does that mean its good? probably not.
first off what is the role of an aircraft? its role is simply to get airborne and release whatever weapon its designed to carry.
quite frankly, the FC-1/JF-17 or whatever you want to call it, have done a more efficient job. Sure, some of the Pakistani and Chinese fanboys are over optomistic and it pisses the hell out of you India fanboys right?
but in the end, the facts remain, and the thing is already flying and ordered and because its got orders secure, and productoin models being built.. it means that it will have a future that is secure, and with a future comes the possibility of upgrades, which means more weapons being integrated and improvements being made, and thats what makes it successful.
the FC-1/JF-17 may not be the most ambitious aircraft, but hey, the Chinese got the J-10 for anything that requires more capability, and the J-11 for even more. its designed to fit a certain range thats expected of it. Unlike the LCA.. where is it going? is it supposed to be a light mig-21 replacement? or are people demanding it be a J-10 type, a Rafale type? etc. and thats the problem of the program.
Precisely.. I think LCA program biggest enemy is IAF stuff who lost touch with reality. LCA is meant to replace Mig-21. When it becomes Rafale, Eurofighter compatible? Plus with a small airframe. U can’t do much from its original plan. India gov shall force IAF to accept current LCA and then they can plan next step of indigeneous MCA.
Jane’s Defence Weekly is reporting that interviews with Russian aeronautical engineers have added further confirmation that China’s J-10 fighter program received extensive Israeli assistance during the 1990s. A shortened version of the article is also available from Jane’s public access website:
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/systems/jdw/jdw080519_2_n.shtmlJane’s interviewed a number of Russian engineers who were directly involved with the J-10 program, after Israeli support for the fighter was gradually withdrawn. Among other details, the Russians revealed the following:
- Russian engineers visiting the Chengdu facility reported meeting their Israeli counterparts on multiple occassions. They also reported seeign J-10 technical drawings marked-up with notes written in Hebrew.
[*]Models of the J-10 were sent to Russian wind tunnel facilities in 2000 to confirm spin and high angle-of-attack performance.
[*]Jane’s also reports that the impact of the May 11th earthquake on the Chengdu aeronautical complex was potentially severe. Chengdu’s nearby research center at Mianyang, for example, was reportedly destroyed, and damage to other aeronautical facilities in the region is all but certain.
What kind of assist Israeli provided? Coating on J-10???:D
Why you quote Japan and India when China’s own practice on other license built aircraft and aviation product always follows the same pattern of what we see in J11B case?
When license building of Eurocopter AS 365N Dauphin II, the initial number is 48 sets, after which the Harbin Aircraft manufacturing Co gained the AS365N Dauphin II airframe design. And keep building more under the Z-9 designation. Have French made it an issue? Because all the technologies involved are properly settled with Eurocopter. Also R&R’s Spey engine, after Xian assembled certain number of Spey Engine kits from UK, then it managed to fully indigenize the engine under WS-9 turbofan engine designation. And WS-9 is currently under production to power JH-7A, Does R&R make it an issue?
What we see now is the similar license building case involves the same AVIC companies. Why you want to use irrelevant countries’ irrelevant cases to make your points?
Yup… Pinko makes a very good point. Z-9 is even export to Mali and Eurocopter has not make single complaint. French are no weakling. They can make a big issue of it but didn’t. Most likely export and copy number are all already settle. As Pinko mention, Sukhoi has not make a comment yet.
Flogger, the key point is neither us nor the media you like to quote has seen the contract ( if there’s any) signed between Sukhoi & SAC, so we can’t say the said contract is breached or not because both parties-Sukhoi & SAC involved in the said contract so far don’t make any complaint to each other. The silence of Sukhoi towards this matter is the best proof so far for me because if like what you said, the SAC has breached the said contract between itself & Sukhoi, then the latter definitely won’t keep quiet. If so hard for you to understand the simple logic involved ( which is always the case), let me assume some one borrow 10000 bucks from you and both of you signed proper agreement but end of the day the one doesn’t return the money to you which breaches the agreement between you and him, will you keep quiet? If he does return the money to you, will you still shout he owns you 10000 bucks?
Even Sukhoi indeed goes to the court, most likely will reveal the contract if there’s any, we still have to see ourselves the SAC indeed breached the agreement or not.
I think one likely agreement over sukhoi and SAC is that SAC is not allow to export J-11B. That is where FC-1 will come in and fill the void for China fighter airplane export…
IF i have to write some thing about J-11. it will be along this lines. obsolete fighter with LCD displays.
Su27SM was offered to China but other than some rumour, PLAAF never order anything. Instead J-11B keep chunking out and J-11BS going to come out soon….
Btw, from a russian website. I can hardly believe its words!
Just a check, if not for the Iran islamic revolution and collapsed of Sadr empire. Will F-14 be offered to which possible country besides Iran? Israel or UK?
A thoroughly unmodern and unexciting basic patrol frigate design. Typical of Chinese surface warships this one appears to be about 2 decades behind the state of the art and is probably as lightly and flimsily built as its cousins in service with Egypt, Thailand, etc.
For a Navy whose most modern surface combattants are older than most of the men who serve on them these ships will be better than nothing, but they will hardly change the military balance in the region.
Of cos, they are export item plus they are value for money. U want good stuff then u better pay more! It’s all abt balancing yr military budget. Not every country can afford a AB destroyer. F-22P fits Pakistan military budget.
If you think this is MZKT 79221…
I seriously doubt it. No Topol-M or its TEL is going to end up in China. Russia don’t trust China enough to be supplying strategic assets.
I think with US influence attempting to infiltrate central Asia and eastern europe. Russia is more willing to cooperate closely with China. Approval of RD-93 engines re-export to Pakistan is a massive proof of Russia willing to work closer with China. Despite India as a close ally of India for many decade, Russia is willing to risk this r/s for the sake of getting China support.
While for Russia military hardware less purchase by the Chinese is more got to do with Russia military advancement declining rather than not willing to offer more advance weapon to China. Tu-22 M3 was offered to China but China did not show any interest.
you want to compare that Thunderbird F-16s smoke contrails to the smoky engine exhaust of the FC-1 ?:D I thought that it would be ridiculous if a Pakistani tried to pass off that exhaust as a deliberate show trick, but it turns out thats exactly what a dud like you would try to do !! 😀
As for Pakistani help on the FC-1, I’m guessing you’re referring to the paint..best quality paint in the world !:D
I thought someone say air show smoke will only from wingtip and when proven, it can came from nozzle engine. He switches his tone. How can we trust such indecisive person words? I sense great sour grapes! :rolleyes:
stop bull****ting..everyone knows that the MiG-29s engines are smoky..I just pointed out how smoky those FC-1s are as well..
as for airshows, the smoke is from canisters on the wingtips, not the engine nozzle..:D just accept the fact that the RD-33 series or its derivatives have smoky combustors..the newer RD-33MK3s on the MiG-29K are the only ones where a very conscious effort was made to take care of the combustor.
I seriously pity u that u never got a chance to attend an air show and never see an air show pictures. Now I show u something,ok? 😉
Btw, I know Indian know nuts abt Mig-29 and can’t do any modification without Russkie help. That’s why they can’t get rid of the smoky trail of their Mig-29.. 😀 While FC-1 is totally done by Pakistan and China. That is the main different. Yr jet is smoky doesn’t mean mine desoite using the same engine..
those smoky RD-33s make it look like they were done specially for the show..:D
Don’t forget India also has Mig-29 using RD-33 engines, are u bashing yr own beloved country choice of fighter? 😀 Stop making senseless issue of FC-1 engine being smoky. Can’t u see it an air show and smoke is neccessary to display the flight path. Smoky issue was solved long ago….
SPOTLIGHT
[I][SIZE=”4″]Wings of change[/SIZE][/I]Turning away from US F16s and opting for Swedish fighter jets marks a big change in air force thinking, writes Saritdet Marukatat and Wassana Nanuam.
Volvo cars on the streets, Ericsson mobile phones in people’s hands and, soon, Gripen jets in the sky. Consumers are already familiar with many Swedish products, which are renowned for their durability and simplicity. And now the air force has a liking for Swedish fighter jets.
When the first of the new Gripen 39 C/D planes reach Thailand in 2011, it will be the first time in modern history that the air force’s frontline combat aircraft have not been made in the United States. In the past the army and the air force have relied on tanks and planes made in the US.
The air force has opted for the multi-purpose Swedish aircraft, which was chosen over Russia’s SU-30 jets because of several factors besides the price tag. One option the air force had before deciding on the Swedish fighters was to upgrade its F16 fleet.
The Gripen jets use shorter runways for landing and takeoff than the American planes, air force chief Chalit Phukphasuk said.
They can fly up to four hours after refuelling in the air, they give the air force real time operation with data links to central command and they fit in with the intentions of Thailand.
Special bonuses that also come with the 19-billion-baht deal for six of the multi-purpose Swedish planes include guaranteed spare parts, training, another aircraft equipped with an airborne early warning system, scholarships for Thai pilots and a transport plane.
Under the deal sealed between the Swedish firm and the Thai air force in Stockholm on Feb 9, four two-seater Gripen jets and two one-seater jets will be delivered in 2011. Another six will be purchased in the future.
However, the deal has met with criticism over the apparent rush for approval before the retirement of the military-installed government of then prime minister Surayud Chulanont. Gen Surayud’s cabinet agreed in principle to the deal in October last year and officially approved it in January, a month before it stepped aside for the elected government led by the People Power party.
When Gen Surayud took the helm as government leader, the army also pushed for the purchase of armoured vehicles from Ukraine.
But ACM Chalit, who chaired the now-defunct coup-making body _ the Council for National Security _ after army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin stepped down, dismissed the criticism. The arms purchase was a long-term plan as the country needed new planes to replace the old, Vietnam-era F5 fighters, he argued.
An independent security source said the Gripen deal underlined the need for Thailand to end the domination of military equipment from the US, which is Thailand’s key security ally.
”The freeze in defence assistance after the coup was a factor. It made the top brass realise that it is time for diversification,” said the source. The US ban was affecting the nation’s security, its ability to defend itself.
”The temporary ban on defence aid definitely was a factor”.
The Gripen jets will be replacing the US-made F5 fighters which are gradually being phased out. The last F5s will be retired in the same year the Swedish planes arrive. Thailand’s first squadron of 12 F16 jets were purchased from the US in 1988, followed by further orders of new and refurbished F16s. By 2039 they will all be retired, according to the air force leader.
The six Gripen planes will be stationed at Surat Thani air base where the F5s are being decommissioned. ”Gripens are more suitable for operations over the sea,” said ACM Chalit.
The location where the new jets will be stationed is very important.
The fighters, which will be equipped with air-to-ship missiles, will be the main protector of the Gulf of Thailand and Andaman Sea. They will also be available for the southern provinces where the insurgency has disrupted security since 2004.
”Gripens will be a cover for the Thai navy,” he said. ”They will not be here as part of an arms race. They will be here for defence purposes.”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/17Mar2008_news21.php
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PS. The Thai Gripen model show IRIS-T. Hope we got that one too. 🙂
I am thinking what if Uncle Sam stop supply of F404 engines to Sweden bound for Thailand. Wouldn’t it defeat the purpose of trying to get Gripen in the first place? If they really want to break clutch from US. They shall follow Malaysia/Venezula where they will damm **** off with US and decide to opt for Russia arms of Su-30 MKM.
Btw, Thailand has long already diversify its arm in the 90’s by buying Chinese warship,anti-warship missiles, armour tank and carrier. It is only recently they decide to bring this trend into the airforce!
JH-7A Low level flight.
Seems pretty low… I can see a shadow.
Jh-7A got export to other countries??
I agree Gripen seems a natural choice.
Although Sweden is now in the EU, it is not part of NATO & so is relatively “neutral” in that regard.
I don’t know enough about Swiss politics to know if this is an important or not.How about an export version of the AIDC Ching Kuo? 😀
If that is the case, FC-1 will be the better choice. Cheap and have advance feature. Remember the DSI inlet…. 😀
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=35836
Updated at Monday, January 21, 2008 1410 PST
ISLAMABAD: A joint production of Pak-China JF-17 thunder jet would be started at Kamra from tomorrow (Tuesday).
Launching ceremony of JF-17 sub assemblies to be held at Pakistan Aeronautical complex Kamra tomorrow. Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood Ahmed will be the chief guest.