Showtime 100Stage count reduction. Simplified chambers. An aversion to the more complicated metal forms…
LOL.. Self pwned! 😀
The stats suggest the WS-10 should be significantly more fuel efficient. Stage count reduction is usually a good thing. Less is more for jet engines
Showtime 100You want an official statement telling you the Earth is round too? :rolleyes:
Jane’s good enough for ya? Gee that took all of three seconds with a lavi J-10 israel search.
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/systems/jdw/jdw080519_2_n.shtml
LOL.. Russian engineer? Who’s that.
Russian aerospace engineers have confirmed to Jane’s that China’s Chengdu J-10 fighter aircraft benefited from significant, direct input from Israel’s Lavi programme – including access to the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) Lavi aircraft itself.
In a number of interviews Jane’s has talked at length with several engineers, designers and technical specialists – some of whom have been working with their Chinese counterparts for decades and have had first-hand experience on Chinese military projects. They have provided detailed accounts of the assistance given to various Chinese manufacturers and their military aircraft projects. This has included extensive design and performance modelling, wind-tunnel testing and advanced aerodynamic design input.
Senior Russian engineers who spoke to Jane’s recalled their many visits to Chengdu, and elsewhere in China, some of which began in the 1980s. Jane’s was told how Chengdu officials of the highest level stated how they had one of the IAI Lavi prototypes in their facilities. Describing his conversations with Chengdu concerning possession of a Lavi aircraft, one Jane’s source commented: “I did not consider that to be a revelation … doesn’t everyone know that already?”
It is not possible to independently verify the Russian comments. The charge of Lavi technology transfer has been made before, but this time the claims come from individuals with sustained personal experience of the programme. Both Chinese and Israeli officials have long refuted any purported links between the J-10 and the Lavi.
Of cos, sensational news sell. 😉
Get me some hign ranking general. Or official statement or Chengdu official website. If not, as I say ‘Fanboy Statement’. Try harder! :rolleyes:
Showtime 100Which, country are they referring too? Iraq???
DUBAI – November 19, 2009: Lockheed Martin has strong hopes of clinching a sale of the F-16 fighter with an undisclosed Arab country in the near future, said Rick Groesch, regional vice president for the Middle East.
“We have very, very good prospects of selling more in the region,” Groesch told journalists Nov.17 at the air show here. The deal, which could be sealed by the end of the year, would be for the block 50 version of the F-16 aircraft, he said.
The mystery buyer is not Egypt, where Lockheed is in detailed negotiations for a sale.
Iraq, Oman and Jordan are seen as potential buyers, a French aerospace executive said.
A Lockheed team is currently in Egypt for “final discussions” for a prospective purchase of 24 F-16s, Groesch said. The U.S. Congress has cleared the way for a sale with a notification and the present talks were aimed at finalizing contract details.
Lockheed sees potential sales of 100 to 200 F-16s around the world until the F-35 becomes available for export. That market estimate excludes the Indian competition for 126 fighters. As part of the Indian tender process, Indian officials will be invited to the U.S. to see live weapons firing by the F-16 at a number of sites in the last week of January and first week of February.
A production backlog of 76 F-16s is expected is expected to the line busy until 2012. Countries which have bought the aircraft in the past couple of years include Greece with 30 units, Pakistan (18), Morocco (24) and Turkey (30).
A number of countries are upgrading their F-16s to the more capable block 50/52 version, a modernization program expected to keep the aircraft in service to 2040, Groesch said.
In the Indian tender, the contenders are Boeing’s F/A-18 E/F, Dassault Aviation’s Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16, MiG 35 and Saab Gripen NG.
Iraq? I don’t think so.. They are not looking for costly fighter jet at the moment.
Showtime 100Typical fanboy response. You might want to actually read a little bit on the subject then you might not look so clueless. 😉
Looking at yr joining date. I thought u have more of a clue of rules of games in forum. But by yr response, looks like u have learn nothing from these past 4 years. Typical fanboy response? I tell u what is fanboy.
Barking without facts and giving bias assumption from general mass view is fanboy. :rolleyes:
If u want to convince everybody. We need official facts, statement . Please bring it up! 😉
Showtime 100Yeah, I have the sales receipt right here as it happens. :rolleyes: It’s common knowledge. That’s means everybody and their friggin’ dog is aware of it (but apparently not you).
Typical bias asessment. I have receipt for F-22 too. It was design by Chinese so as PAK-FA. :rolleyes:
Going by yr theory, I can say whatever I like or I want. 😉
Showtime 100Nobody said the J-10 was a stolen Russian fighter. It’s a stolen US one. 😉 Actually Israel sold them Lavi info much of which was created and funded by the US. Without the US’s permission of course.
Yr mum told u that? Give me official statement or some high ranking official say it. If not, its really yr mum who told u that. And I think she is just an ordinary housewife :rolleyes:
Showtime 100As far as i know Mr.Pogosyan do not work for any Russian media.
As for the J 10. They can deny it all they want and since the Israelis and Chinese are embarrassed about it they are unlikely to officially confirm it. However I will give you an interesting read thats several years old.
Dude. In a military forum, facts, official statement,words from high ranking personnel counts. If not, I can say whatever rubbish I want.
Mr. Pogosyan might not work for Russian. But he definitely wants his article or writing to sell. 😉
Showtime 100Partly true J 11 A not stolen. J 11 B stolen :). Lavi Original Concept bought (not stolen) but has significant Chinese inputs.
Source to Scooter’s story : http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/19-11-2009/110601-china_russia-0
According to Chinese side. Su-27 airframe design was bought together with licensing of Su-27SK deal. Which means Chinese side is allowed to produce as many Su-27 airframe as possible. A fully domestic Su-27SM dubbed J-11B was long announce in 2004 Zuhai and the only response from Russian side is mocking of impsossible mission of completing 100% domestic J-11B in such short time. They have no mention of Chinese side not allowing such plane.
And Putin has no make such issue with Chinese side regarding illegal produce of J-11B so as Russian defense minister… All along is rubbish russian media making the accusation of illegal copy.
An interview with J-10 designer from Chengdu has outright denied any Israel involvement(lavi) in J-10 design. Israel government side has also denied they allow Chinese to access of their project regarding Lavi.
I need official prove, no guessing and no any personal assumption to prove J-10 design/concept is tied to Lavi.. :rolleyes:
Showtime 100I still don’t know why the Russians supply engines to the stolen fighters. They know the Chinese would make them soon anyway so may be getting as much money as they can while they can.
As for the Strong China, It would be too late by the time they realize it was a mistake.
Why? Becos first place. Firstly,J-11 is not stolen. It is licensed assemble Su-27 fighter. Secondly ,J-10 is not stolen. It is completely design by Chinese.
Lastly FC-1 is also design by Chinese and has nothing to do with Russian. Since there are money to be make by selling engines. Why not? And if Russian is not going to sell. Chinese can make themselves as demonstrated by some J-11B and J-11SB running on FWS-10 engines.
As also demonstrated by Chinese in transport plane issue regarding IL-76. By simply refuse to honour orders in black and white signed in 2004 of 38 IL-76 order by China. China simply build their own large transport plane and the loser in the end is Russian.
Russian continue supply of engines to China is a wise choice. Let’s make money together. 😉
Showtime 100I was replying to redgriffin who was implying that the PAF could send other aircraft with “advanced” avionics to the UAE instead of F-16s. does the ROSE Mirage’s avionics get rated as advanced compared to these 4th generation and 5th generation fighters ? anything that the PAF would send to face off against the F-22, Typhoon, Rafale or the F-16 Block 60 would end up being cannon-fodder. not flaming, simply stating the facts. what exactly will they learn when they keep getting shot down and are out-classed in every way ?
How u know their F-16 get shot down?
Showtime 100Well, Israel “stole” Mirage 5 when building Nesher. But Scooter would not say anything about that. I think that we should refrain from making statements like Scooter did. As many said the engines are from Russia. Russia earns actually if China copies. And the rest of the first post sugest that it is Russia that fails to deliver what it promises. I think China delivers more then the promise of being just a copy. Looking how well Russia served Algeria (Mig29 story), how well it served others it is just giving the market away. And both nations are busy with the next generation so we cannot cry about the results sofar.
So the problem lies with Scooter? :p
He will not pose anything bad abt USA and Israel but at least refrain from posting rubbish abt other countries. :rolleyes:
Showtime 100Typical sour grape Russian.. Haha.. Thankfully Putin don’t think that way and is keen on improving r/s with China.
This is just some defence sector individual news which carrys their own personal opnion.
Showtime 100Amazing. People actually take websites like Strategy Page seriously.
Anyone who has been following this knows that the WS-10A and the Al-31F are two different designs. The WS-10A is a more advanced design.
The WS-10A is actually a more ambitious engine project than the Al-31F.
Only newbie take strategypage seriously..:diablo:
After a few years, they will start to distinguish between good and crap aviation article. 😀
Showtime 100Al31F is cleary more work to build. The WS10A is more or less a contingency plan for self sustainability. They have better leverage in talks with future Russian contracts by these type of backup programs. China has almost always reinvented Russian designs and made their own twists to suit the best of their knowledge. Doesn’t always work out.
Why it doesn’t work? WS-10 certify for mass production and J-10 still chunking out but new engine order has not been report..
So where do u think they get the engines for new airframe?
Showtime 100So which is better? AL-31F or FWS-10/A?
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