Finally, the MoD signs a contract with ATLAS for 6 towed sonar array systems for major warships. Additional ATAS systems will be developed as part of a JV with BEL or a private firm in India, to equip other frontline warships.
Sonar contract provides major boost to navy
On November 12, without announcement or fanfare, the ministry of defence (MoD) signed a small contract with enormous implications for itself and the Indian Navy. This formalised the purchase of six advanced towed array sonar (ATAS) systems from Atlas Elektronik, the German naval systems giant, for just under Euro 40 million (Rs 306 crore).
These ATAS systems will equip three Talwar-class frigates (INS Talwar, Trishul and Tabar) and three Delhi-class destroyers (INS Delhi, Mumbai and Mysore), allowing them to detect enemy submarines in the Arabian Sea, where the warm, shallow waters confound conventional hull-mounted sonars.
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All that protects India’s 25 latest frontline warships from enemy submarines is a relatively ineffective Passive Towed Array Sonar (PTAS), and an indigenous hull-mounted sonar called HUMSA.
So important is the ATAS contract that the MoD abandoned even the pretence of indigenisation. Atlas Elektronik will build all six ATAS systems in Germany, and has been exempted from offsets.
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The navy will fit ATAS externally onto the rear of its warships, which have been built for this reason with an empty compartment at the rear.
With this contract, Atlas Elektronik has taken pole position for supplying the navy a range of high-end sonars. Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), which is required to build ten ATAS with foreign partnership, has been encouraged by the navy to tie up with Atlas so that sonar equipment is standardised across warships.
BEL is learnt to be in discussions with Atlas for building ten ATAS for three Shivalik-class frigates (INS Shivalik, Satpura and Sahyadri), three Kolkata-class destroyers (Kolkata, Kochi and Chennai), and four Kamorta-class anti-submarine corvettes (INS Kamorta, Kadmatt, Kiltan and Kavaratti).
That leaves 20 warships that will remain in naval service for some years. These include: three aircraft carriers (INS Vikramaditya, Vikrant and Vishal); three Brahmaputra class frigates (INS Brahmaputra, Betwa and Beas); three Talwar-class follow-on frigates (INS Teg, Tarkash and Trikand); four Project 15-B destroyers (unnamed, under construction); and seven Project 17-A frigates (unnamed, contract being negotiated).
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Given its first-mover advantage, the infrastructure and partnerships it will build and its already demonstrated price advantage, Atlas hopes to supply sonar systems for these and for other smaller surface warships and submarines. In April, the MoD tendered for 16 Anti Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft (ASWC), which need sophisticated sonar with electronically controlled beams.Atlas Elektronik sources say they are eager to establish a joint venture company with either BEL or an Indian private sector company to build sonars in India. That would grant majority ownership of 51 per cent to the Indian entity.
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The new Defence Minister, Manohar Parrikar, an IITian and the ex-CM of Goa, with a reputation for honesty, has stated that the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) should meet at least once a month and if need be, more often, to speed up acquisition. The entire process itself needs to be more transparent as per him.
Expect acquisitions to move quicker now.
Now that does not compute..
If we are going Down that line of thought, India would have left Russian’s arms market years ago due to the fact Russia have been selling copious amount of toys to China years after years.
Nah, i think India couldn’t care any less about Russia selling a few toys like Mi-8 etc etc to Pakistan.
Now pls stop this political rant about every world politics Connected through some sales between countries.
Did you even read what I wrote? I said that this sale will push India a little bit further into the western orbit. Believe it or not, there is a contingent in India that holds that Russia is a strategic friend that doesn’t sell offensive weapons to Pakistan, which differentiates it from the rest. Now, that argument just won’t hold much ground.
But as I stated earlier, which you obviously didn’t read, it’s purely upto to Russia and given that it is business, They have every right to sell to Pakistan. Just that they shouldn’t expect much in the way of real money coming their way from Pakistan.
Another typo? AFAIK that’s the only typo. The 8 in 5.8 is a mistake.
it is the SECOND FlightGlobal article that states the $5.8 billion figure. Hence the second typo. Sheesh!
Riightt . . . so Brazil is developing bespoke kit, & loading the development & integration costs onto the programme. Thanks.
Not semantics, just plain English.
The South Africans (as in the government) lack the will to spend money.
The SAAF lacks money, as a result of the above.So it is perfectly correct to say either – in the right context. Two different entities. Simple.
So where did I say that South African nation is broke for you to come around lecturing me on how the govt. doesn’t want to spend money it has??? They aren’t able to keep all their Gripens flying, because their budget isn’t big enough. As simple as that.
I said “they cannot afford to keep their Gripens flying” so where did the South African Govt. come in? It obviously refers to their existing budget which is inadequate to even keep existing assets flying.
Argh now it looks even worse. :p
I think this talk of LCH as an ugly helicopter is overblown. It looks a bit awkward, but no more than most attack helicopters. But that paint job is hideous.
the black one is TD-1 and the digital camo is TD-2. TD-3 is still unpainted. I’m hoping to see the IA’s Dhruv type camo applied to it.
So much drama..
For me its pretty straight forward.
The Russian industrial military Complex is like any other, they are addicted to $$$$.
So when the Indian market are drying in, Russia will allways look for new markets to sell their toys.
We see it in Iraq and Egypt, etc etc.
the only thing is that they’re getting closer to a market that doesn’t really have too much money to spend, and one that is used to getting equipment either through freebies in the form of military aid or through generous credit lines.
In turn, they’re pushing India just a little further into the Western orbit. Just look at the sheer value of defence business they’ve gotten from India and compare it to what they may get from Pakistan.
Anyway, its all about business. India has been sourcing more and more from the West for a variety of reasons and Russia isn’t happy about that. If they find a market they have every right to sell to it, just like other nations do.
On the basis that Brazil signed the contract? I am sorry, do you have some data that the Brazilian government does not have?
Brazilians with more expertise and more experience and access to far more data than you and me pored through the deal. They decided to sign it. I assume that they know what they are doing. You on the other hand, obviously don’t, since you believe that they somehow missed the fact that $5.4 billion divided by 36 equals $150 million.
You probably somehow conflated affordable with cheap. Don’t. And keep in mind that both terms are relative and subjective.
Don’t be silly. Obviously the Brazilian govt and FAB knew have access to data that we don’t, and that has been factored in when making the decision to sign the deal. But that doesn’t change anything. The contract cost is high, however much spin you may try to put on it.
This is not a 5th gen fighter we’re talking about. It is a derivative of an existing 4th gen fighter. And it is a decidedly light to medium weight single engined fighter, not a medium to heavy weight twin engine like the Rafale or Super Hornet which cost more to manufacture and correspondingly bring more heft, capabilities and range vs payload.
So, while just dividing the total program cost by the units purchased to arrive at a flyaway cost figure that one can assign to a Gripen E may not be correct, the plain fact is that the total program cost is high.
I’m not confusing affordable and cheap. I know what they mean. But when 36 units of a type with some ToT cost you $5.4 billion (almost certainly without weapons included) then one must understand that very few nations in the world can even afford a couple of squadrons of such aircraft. That is relatively unaffordable for many nations that would have been possible Gripen E customers. And that was the USP of the Gripen- a western fighter, cheaper to buy and operate than even late model F-16s. That is clearly no longer the case.
And calling something relatively affordable must take into account the capabilities it brings as well. Those fighters that are relatively unaffordable when compared to the Gripen E (Rafale,Typhoon and even the Super Hornet), bring in relatively greater capabilities, as was clear by the Swiss evaluation results, which factored in the Gripen NG eventually.
I said you can’t just divide the package cost with the number of units and conclude anything from the resulting number. You said you know that already. I later elaborated that we have no idea what is in the package, and you concurred. Yet despite agreeing with me on those two critical points you then ignore them both and still insist on saying that it’s too costly, conveniently ignoring others who have brought up data regarding the cost of Rafale and F-18.
Here’s the difference between your position and mine, in summary:
Yours: You have decided apriori that Brazil’s Gripen acquisition is too expensive and is cherrypicking data to support your decision.
Mine: We don’t have enough data to decide. Let’s not jump into conclusions.
Yours: Tonnyc didn’t support me, therefore he’s defending the cost of the program.
I’m not cherry picking any data whatsoever. I’m using the total program cost versus the number of aircraft being acquired to state that the Gripen is by no means, an affordable fighter. That’s all.
You claim that there isn’t enough data to jump to conclusions so in a way you are stating that there may be more to it than meets the eye, so far..but there is nothing to back that up either.
So on what basis can you suggest that a program cost of $150 million per Gripen (assuming its not just acquisition cost) makes it affordable?
Another article on FG that claims the deal is worth $5.8 billion, not $5.4 billion
Perhaps another typo?
The promotion of black officers whether or not they have skills is a problem, but the lack of money is the main one. Pilots (including black ones) have left because of frustration with too few flying hours, because there isn’t enough money for fuel & maintenance. It’s the same across the forces. Successive ministers have pleaded for enough money to at least be able to operate the equipment the armed forces have, & not got it.
Can’t train new pilots to fill quotas if there’s too little money for flying time for trainers, can you? So the quota thing becomes a secondary issue.
lack of money? Or the will to spend money?
Weren’t you the one using semantics to claim that the South Africans have the money but don’t want to spend it when I mentioned that the SAAF couldn’t keep all its Gripen flying? As if having the money made any difference to things on the ground- as things stand, their budget is severely limited and that is very unlikely to change without some serious threats developing in the future.
Akash SAM tested against 2 flying targets
Demonstrating multiple-target handling capability, two Akash surface-to-air supersonic missiles were simultaneously launched against two flying targets by Indian Air Force personnel from the Integrated Test Range (ITR), Chandipur, Odisha on Thursday.
Flying at supersonic speed of 2.5 Mach, one of the missiles engaged and destroyed a fast-moving Banshee, a small unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), at a slant range of 11 km and an altitude of 2.5 km.
Carrying a 55 kg pre-fragmented warhead, the missile achieved a direct hit against the target which was in an approaching mode, according to G. Chandramouli, Project Director, Akash weapon system.
As the second missile approached the other target (para flares dropped from a MIG 27) at a slant range of 24 km and an altitude of 5.5. km, the warhead detonated within the proximity of the target which was receding. He said multiple target handling and automated air defence functions were the important features of the indigenously developed Akash missile system.