BlackArcherno Vikas, there is very little information trickling out of ADA or even HAL nowadays..
BlackArcherIndia negotiating with Raytheon on ISTAR airplanes
India Raytheon negotiate ISTAR buy
NEW DELHI — The Indian Air Force (IAF) is negotiating purchase of two intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition reconnaissance (ISTAR) aircraft from Raytheon to boost its ground-detection capabilities.Negotiations got a push after a visit by US Vice President Joseph Biden to New Delhi July 23, and a team from Raytheon briefed IAF officials here on the ISTAR capabilities on Oct. 11, said a source in the Ministry of Defence.
An executive of Raytheon here said their team has briefed IAF officials, but provided no details.
IAF interest in ISTAR capabilities was boosted by allied operations in Libya.
“The U.S.-led operations in Afghanistan and the Operation Ellamy in Libya have brought to light the use of ISTAR aircraft and IAF decided to acquire these capabilities,” said a retired IAF official.
IAF shortlisted Raytheon after evaluating responses to a request for information sent in 2011 to Thales, Boeing, BAE, Elta and Raytheon. IAF proposes to purchase two ISTAR aircraft from Raytheon on a government-to-government basis at a cost of about $350 million each. Raytheon has offered a Gulfstream platform for the aircraft but has left it open for the IAF to make its own platform selection.
The ISTAR aircraft will use active electronically scanned array radar and be able to scan more than 30,000 kilometers in a minute and analyze the data in 10 to 15 minutes to identify targets. The system would operate in all weather, day and night.
To cover India’s lengthy borders, the ISTAR surveillance aircraft would need to fly as high as 40,000 feet , said an IAF official.
When acquired, the ISTAR aircraft will be integrated with India’s indigenous air command and control system (IACCS).Being built on the lines of NATO’s air command-and-control system, IACCS will handle air traffic control, surveillance, air mission control, airspace management and force management functions, added the IAF official. IAF’s airborne warning and control system (AWACS), aerostat radars and other radars are being integrated with the IACCS, enabling quick transfer of data from various platforms to a central battlefield management system.
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and here is BEL’s page on the IAF’s IACCS
BlackArcherSR-SAM Maitri to get final nod from the GoI. This will be a JV between MBDA and DRDO with Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) as the production agency.
A final nod from the Indian government on the Short-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (SR SAM) project is expected shortly. The project involves joint development of short-range surface-to-air missile for the three services by technology transfer from European MBDA in joint development with DRDO and Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) as the production agency.
The announcement of completion of negotiations between the two governments was made in a joint statement during French President Francoise Hollande’s visit to India in February. Loic Piedevache, country head, MBDA, said, “We are expecting the project to be finalised very shortly. We look at India as a long-term strategic partner.”
The missile is to be developed in two variants — ship-based variant for the Navy and land-based for the Indian Army as well as the IAF.
The consortium’s another flagship project Milan 2T is expected to be further extended and contract for the same is likely to be signed “soon” according to Piedevache. “The modalities of production are still in discussion phase with BDL,” he said.
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BlackArcherBoeing delivers 4th C-17 to the IAF
Boeing has delivered its fourth C-17 Globemaster III aircraft to the Indian Air Force (IAF), with one more to be supplied by the year end.
This keeps the American aircraft giant on track to deliver five of the large, versatile military transport aircraft to the IAF this year, and five more in 2014.
Once India receives all the of the ten aircraft, it will be the largest C-17 operator outside the United States.
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Most recently, the IAF used its C-17s to support Cyclone Phailin relief efforts.
BlackArcherFirst confirmatory image of a Jaguar-IM of the IAF with the Boeing Harpoon Block III AShM.
pic courtesy Arnav Pai
BlackArcherAs expected. We have seen the shopping list for Su-30SM parts at IAPO, it was full of Samtel and Thales.
Samtel? Its an Indian company that manufactures MFDs for the Su-30MKI..they’re supplying them for the Su-30SM too?
BlackArcherSo it appears that the AMCA was not shelved actually..still on the drawing board and the configuration is being finalised as per Dr Avinash Chander, DRDO Chief.
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On Tejas, he said the aircraft in Mark-1 configuration would get full initial operational clearance by this year-end, and would brace for final operational clearance in 2014. Its series production had begun and induction of the first series production aircraft into the Air Force would also take place next year.
..The ambitious Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), he said, was on the drawing board and the basic configuration was being finalised at the moment.
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BlackArcherSikorsky now looking to fill in the space for VVIP helicopters since the GoI has issued a show cause notice to Agusta Westland for scrapping the AW-101 deal. S-92 cabins are now made completely in India by Tata Advanced Systems Ltd. and Sikorsky.
BlackArcherYep, that’s fair. Assuming Russians have enough funds to carry on the development by themselves.
Going by what the Russian posters on this forum write, it appears that there is no dearth of funds and they’re doing India a favour by letting it participate in the program while paying for the development.
Actually, providing development funds entails one to certain IP rights over what was developed (ala the UAE with the F-16 Block 60), but there isn’t enough in the public domain to know what the IP status on this program will be..or whether India will actually make any money on its investment through HAL building parts for export T-50s or be able to have a say on whom to sell the T-50 to and whom not to.
India AFAIK doesn’t get any royalties for Su-30MKI variants being sold despite MKI development program being funded by India. HAL provides some parts and that’s about it.
BlackArcherThat’s OK but somehow I think that India would expect to get from LMA what they can’t get from Sukhoi. Ain’t gonna happen, though, the F-35 is even far more developed than T-50.
OK, but then… If India doesn’t have the expertise/established presence either as airframers, or on the front of avionics, or propulsion, or aerodynamics, or stealth, or advanced materials… how do they want to get the 50:50 share, then?
They remind me of a kid badly wanting to play for Bayern Munich or Real Madrid while he’s hardly suited for 3rd German Bundesliga (no pun intended)
No problem, no need for 50% workshare, but just don’t ask us to foot half the development bill either. We’d be happy to let Russia develop the T-50 entirely on its own (which it can, no doubt) and then we’ll evaluate it against the competition and take a decision based on all possible parameters of comparison. Sounds fair, doesn’t it?
BlackArcherWhat exactly would you (or HAL) expect to get from Sukhoi?
And similarly, what would you expect to get from LMA if F-35A was chosen, instead?
What India should expect is to get workshare and R&D share that justifies the investment. If there isn’t much workshare to be had because as you guys put it, India cannot contribute much because its not as technologically advanced as Russia is, then the investment must be in the same proportion as the workshare it gets.
If not, why pay such a huge premium? This appears to be nothing more than ToT for developing a local version, which can hardly justify spending $5.5 billion for development and flight testing.
The only advantage with the T-50 as I see it now, is that it gives India access to source codes (I hope at least) and ToT to be able to assemble and maintain the FGFA variant. The F-35 may have issues with access to source codes, or with the ability to integrate IAF specific weapons, avionics, etc. But at least India won’t have to fork out billions of $ for watered down workshare. The F-35 would most likely involve initial deliveries from LM and then a local assembly line to assemble F-35 in India..
Should such a premium be paid for access to source codes and flexibility to integrate what one wants? I don’t think so. What most Indians would now want is to let Russia develop the T-50 entirely on its own. Then India can order the fully developed T-50 and pay for ToT and local assembly and then fund whatever India-specific avionics or weapons it wants.
BlackArcherWhat you guys say does not compute..
Take a long hard look at the MKI and the exellent shared Development and history between Irkut and HAL.If you can’t read or Google about the MKI, then let me refresh;
Irkut recieved a very high requirement sheet from IAF’s New Heavy Class Interceptor/multirole fighter.
First India ordered a few batches Su-30K, then Su-30MKI straight from Russia, after a while they got Kits, which HAL got to work on. Further Down the road, HAL produce airframe parts and some systems. And they got their own Engine division where they overhaul the AL-31FP engines.What India WILL get from the FGFA is Kits transfer. No doubt they get to make certain parts and a few systems as well.
Now is this not better than just ordering it up from oversea.. exactly like any F-35 deal would happend??Eighter way, it seems like a LOT more than LM can ever offer India/HAL.
Several other member here has voiced their point of view about Indias big mouth when it comes to the FGFA program.
I do not think India will pay up $5.5 Billion eighter, this is just old News still floating about..India is way off the Board here, they should have joined the Pak-Fa/FGFA program years ago.. in fact they should have joined it back in 2002, if you mean they must share everything Down to 50/50%
Now i do not know why HAL didn’t.. and neighter does anybody else here. But For India to come around in 2013 and demand their “fair share” is silly and completly off any realistic radar.. its not how Things work in the real world.
Sukhoi has frozen its design and are two years away from starting their Pre-Serial Production of the T-50’s..
Now go figure..
You’re totally off when comparing the Su-30MKI and the T-50.
The Su-30MKI was created for the IAF and as per IAF Specifications and on Indian funds. There was no RuAF order nor any RuAF funds to develop such a variant at all. The entire development was specifically done for India. So, it made sense to fund that development and then set up a ToT agreement to allow the Su-30MKI to be assembled in India.
For the T-50, there will be minor differences between the RuAF version and the FGFA for India. It only makes sense for India to fund those developments that are India specific and not anything else because the R&D workshare doesn’t justify such a huge expense. I can hardly believe that it’ll cost $.5.5 billion to develop and test a T-50MKI version. And if the boat has already sailed and there is precious little development left, then what on earth is $11 billion required for? Set up an assembly line made of gold?
And after forking out such a huge sum and getting a so-called “partnership”, India won’t even get a veto on whom to sell the T-50 or its technologies to? That’s just insane, at least from an Indian pov, but I can understand that your prejudiced view is that India is plain damn lucky to even get the T-50 and must be ready to pay a ridiculous premium to get a customized version (which eventually will form the basis of an export variant ala the Su-30MKI derived MKM and MKA, of which India will produce a very small share)
BlackArcherIt makes sense for India to let Russia develop it alone and sell it to whoever they wish. In stead we put this money on LCA-Mk1 production line, LCA Mk2 and AMCA development.
We can buy 144 PAKFA when Russia feels to sell it to us with so called ToT aka partnership.
Agreed. Divert the funds towards the AMCA and Tejas Mk2 and get a western co. like Saab or Dassault to partner on the AMCA. At least the entire IP will belong to India, rather than this farce where you spend close to 50% of the further development costs and then don’t even get a say on whom it can be sold to, in addition to the ridiculous workshare that is being offered.
BlackArcherIndia has not spend $ 5 Billion on thir FGFA program!
Its in the $ 2-300 mill range so far.Pls do not post such uncheked nonsens here..
shut up. Who said that India has already spent the money?? Can’t read or what? Its already spent $295 million.
This was related to the next stage of the contract being negotiated where India will have to fork out half of $11 billion or so for FGFA development. And in return get 15% workshare. If internet warriors like you and perhaps even Russian officials feel that India cannot contribute more than 15% than India shouldn’t have to contribute any more than 15% to the development costs either.
Either that, or let Russia develop it on its own and India buy a IAF specific version at a later stage when the T-50 is ready.
BlackArcherQuestion is, if ToT is marginal and work-share non-existent, why simply give away a contract, potentially worth over $30 billion? At the very least, there needs to be an competitive evaluation versus the F-35, on performance, offsets and cost.
Agreed. The more this ludicrous “contribute 50% of development costs and get 15% workshare” disagreement continues, the more it appears that it may make more sense to scrap the idea of simply buying even 144 FGFAs just like that without even doing a comparitive cost and performance analysis with the F-35.
Either that or forget contributing any money to developing anything other than India-specific FGFA variant. As it is, having sunk nearly $5 billion on development, Russia may still offer the PAK-FA or its technologies to other countries without India agreeing. That is IMO the worst possible investment of such a large sum of money. if China has to have the PAK-FA or its technologies, there should be no damn reason why India should fund its development as well.
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