BlackArcherdid I say that it was on an operational F-16? They developed the DSI intake and tested it on the F-16 way before the JF-17. So, the technology was always there, the choice was made not to go with it for the F-16, since the performance advantage was considered marginal versus the cost of full-scale development and changes to the existing F-16 line. Had they so desired, the F-16 would’ve easily been the first “operational” fighter with DSI. Hardly something to be jumping around tom-tomming from roof tops.
BlackArcherIf it’s very old why doesn’t America have DSI planes? :highly_amused:
LM tested it on the F-16 way before it was even developed for the JF-17. They tested it on the F-16, found the performance improvement marginal, and didn’t believe it offered much of an improvement to justify the change from the existing inlet to the new one.
BlackArcherI see — I didn’t know about the Il-38s based at INS Hansa! So the P-8s will augment the Tu-142s rather than replace them?
There have been some reports that the IN may look to extend the life of the Tu-142s since they offer some interesting capabilities over a very long range. It will certainly be cheaper than buying new P-8Is, although they’ll be costly to maintain.
BlackArcherProbably but who else can they get aircraft from?
The other aircraft manufacturing countries wouldn’t dare provide aircraft in fear of losing access to lucrative Indian market.
its not that reason that has prevented other manufacturers from selling to Pakistan. The fact is that they cannot afford to buy anything that isn’t given on credit (such as from China) or as part of military aid.
In the mid 1990s, the PAF was very interested in a purchase of Mirage-2000-5s but couldn’t fund it. they then wanted Gripens, but the Swedish govt. did’nt permit the sale from going through..Rafales/Typhoons are out of the question due to their high prices and Russia has (to its great credit as an Indian ally) refused to sell any offensive weapons. That leaves only the US and China- and out of the US equipment, the F-16 suits the PAF the best due to its lowest operational costs from among all American fighters.
BlackArcherok, so if all the partners refuse to take T3B deliveries, that still won’t mean that the EF Consortium won’t extract penalties right? I mean, I thought they’d included such clauses in their contracts with the respective govts..so if T3B is cancelled, how many Typhoons does that leave that are yet to be delivered as part of T3A? I’m also guessing that a T3B order cut will make the Typhoon even less competitive in future competitions, based purely on their upfront costs.
sorry, I’m not very well versed with the issues that the NH-90 is facing in Spain..what exactly are the issues that has delayed its service entry?
BlackArcherBlack Archer from what google translate says:
Tiger fleet – 18 to remain, 6 to be sold
A400M – 14 to enter service, 13 to be sold.
NH-90 – order reduced from 45 to 22
EF2000 – Tranche 3A – 15 a/c delayed to 2015.
EF2000 – Tranche 3B cancelled outright (14 a/c).Other articles have shown Spain is trying to find a buyer for up to 18 x T1 EF 2000. Peru, Chile and Poland have all been mentioned as potential buyers.
If these eventuate, Spain will have 54 EF2000 (73 – 1 accident – 18 sold).
thanks. a sorry state of affairs with so many new builds and older equipment having to be sold off. The A400M consortium won’t be too pleased that 13 Spanish A400Ms will now be available on the market, when they’re already struggling to find new buyers.
What are the penalties for cancelling the T3B Typhoons?
BlackArcherToday Spanish government has announced its deep defence cuts. As it was expected (but not less sad), they already announced cancellation of Spanish Tranche 3B (without wainting to december, 14 aircraft) and, most important, Spanish MoD said that an unspecified number of our Typhoons will remain inoperative, to save money.
There are also cuts in A400M, NH-90, EC-665 Tiger…
In Spanish:
http://www.infodefensa.com/cache_noticias/el-/el-eurofighter-el-mas-afectado-por-las-reducciones-efectuadas-por-defensa-en-los-peas.html
http://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-defensa-rebaja-3850-millones-programas-armamento-20130523171453.html
sorry to see such deep cuts. Will these mothballed equipment be sold or kept in reserves, hopefully for a time when the defence budgets can support their operations?
BlackArcherDepends what you mean here. The PAF achieved a 3:1 kill ratio against the IAF in 1965. They didn’t fair too well in 1971, but I believe still achieved higher number of kills against the IAF.
IAF attrition rates were higher since the IAF mounted far more sorties that were intended to destroy ground targets and CAS, as compared to the PAF. Even then, the IAF achieved nearly complete air superiority within a few days of the 1971 war, with the PAF nearly ceasing any opposition against it towards the end.
in addition, during 1965, the IAF was using obsolete fighters like the Vampire, whereas the PAF was being armed with the Sabre, which outclassed it easily. Even the Mystere was nearing obsolescence by 1965 itself.
BlackArcherVariable. Pakistani F-104 pilots completely blew it against the MiG-21, because they tried to engage in a turning fight, for example. Doh! And ‘Patton Nagar’, where Pakistani armoured units with greater numbers of theoretically superior tanks lost badly.
The general trend seems to be that Pakistani military training has traditionally focused on individual skills (e.g. pilots have excellent flying skills), but tactical training, & knowledge of the enemy & his capabilities & tactics, has been poor. In the case of India, the Pakistani military has tended to be arrogant, dismissive of Indian capabilities, & therefore prone to sometimes catastrophic under-estimation of the opposition.
true.
BlackArcher12 submarines are not going to be deterring China or India who are full fledged nuclear powers and who by the time the 12 new subs come on line (2030-2040) will be able to turn Australia’s cities into glass car parks with the flick of a switch (Chinese can already do it).
deter India? Why would Australia need to deter India? Since when is India considered as having even the remotest of bad intentions towards Australia (except when it comes to cricket, and even there a lot of Indians love Aussie cricketers just a little less than Indian cricketers)? To spend on weapons by justifying any sort of threat from India is moronic to say the least.
Nor will it deter the USA who can already take over Australia with ease.
Why would they need to deter the US when they are under the US nuclear umbrella and one of the closest allies in the region?
BlackArcherAre either the first or (rumoured) second batch of P-8Is to replace the Tu-142s currently stationed at INS Rajali? Will all P-8s operate from there?
The first P-8I has joined INAS 312 ‘Albatross’ squadron, which operates the Tu-142M (you can see the squadron emblem on the P-8I, near the nose). My guess is that the first 8 will all be based at INS Rajali, with the second batch of 4 P-8Is going to INS Hansa, at Dabolim in Goa as a permanent detachment of INAS 312. Just a guess, although all 12 may well be based at INS Rajali.
Eventually, when the Il-38SD aircraft of the INAS 315 ‘Winged Stallions’ retire, a further purchase of P-8Is will be most likely to replace them in service, at INS Hansa.
BlackArcherTurkish F-4 pilots “smashed” PLAAF/PLAN Su-27/J-11 pilots in 2010. That say’s it all.
any chance you could provide the source for that?
BlackArcherNot related to the IAF, but the IN, nevertheless posting it here.
Right after the MiG-29K’s were formally commissioned into service, with the INAS 303 Black Panthers squadron, the first P-8I has landed at Arakonnam base in Tamil Nadu.
Navy inducts Boeing Poseidon-8I to tighten coastal security
CHENNAI: India has inducted its first Boeing Poseidon-8I aircraft, which will boost long range maritime snooping and warfare capability, into Navy at its air station INS Rajali on Wednesday.Vice admiral B K Varma, chief of staff, Eastern Naval Command of the Indian Navy said “the aircraft is to be used for broad-area maritime and anti-submarine operations. The aircraft is going to be a unique part in our anti-surface warfare, surveillance and intelligence capacities”.
He said “it is capability based planning, not a threat based planning, that India follows to enhancement of maritime border security”.
As part of a detailed maritime mission plan, Varma said, different phases of coastal security schemes were also being implemented across the Indian maritime borders.
“For an effective understanding of the maritime related issues in Indian waters, a Maritime Domain Awareness (MDA) is now being designed to coordinate with 17 maritime agencies in the country. This will also ensure an identity for each and every fishing boat and vessels in Indian waters to avoid maritime safety and security violations,” he said.
The Boeing P8I is armed with anti-ship Harpoon missiles, Mark-54 anti-submarine torpedoes and Mark-82 depth bombs and was handed over to India in Seattle in December 2012.
It also has a Global Positioning System ( GPS)-cum-Inertial Navigation System that ensures accuracy in hitting targets.
It was in 2009 India signed a two billion dollar contract for a batch of eight aircraft, of which seven will be delivered by 2015.
Induction of P8Iaircraft is being observed as a significant development in enhancing India’s coastal security at a time when there are a lot of speculations about how China is involved in the development of a port near Karachi, a coast-based port of Gwadar.
Gallery of pics of the first P-8I’s arrival at INS Rajali, Arakonnam.
BlackArcherSo apparently no one can provide a source as to whether the JF-17 has relaxed stability or not?
It has what is called a hybrid with 1 digital channel and 2 mechanical. From an article that was published in a Croatian magazine..
In addition to the advanced man-machine interfaces what JF-17 separates from the second-generation fighter aircraft is and its hybrid control system. Specifically, mechanical control systems as can be found in the second generation of fighter aircraft, those that JF-17 to replace, do not offer any form of protection to the pilots of the threshold limits the angle of attack and G loads. Therefore, they are reluctant to fly them to the border of flight options and do not exploit their full potential aerodynamic. Modern electronic control systems offer different types of protection but they are not cheap, or at least they were fifteen years ago when he started developing JF-17.
“Cost reduction has been a priority from the very beginning and for JF-17 selected simpler and cheaper hybrid control system. Compared to modern electronic systems, hybrid is just one electronic channel, the angle for the other two, the tilt and direction mechanically. It was a technological minimum monitoring the angle of attack and G loads through own aircraft. however technology has progressed significantly since then and today we can offer modern electronic control system that is only 10% more expensive than the existing hybrid. For now, “on the drawing board” but if someone wants to, we can certify a period of two years, “said Zhu Zeng, a representative of the Chinese aircraft manufacturers CAC at Airshow China.
So a modern digital FBW could be provided if required, but so far no sign of that for JF-17 Block 2.
BlackArcherSpeaking of, whats up with Naval Tejas?
NP-1 the first naval LCA prototype will fly by the middle of this year. Has had landing gear, some structural and other changes related to the FBW software incorporated. Will be followed soon after by the NP-2 fighter version. Then they’ll begin trials on the Shore Based Test Facility to validate control laws and prove that the N-LCA can take off from a carrier.
Sign In
