BlackArcherI hate to say this but, the Chinese dont know why they will start a war with indian, truly they dont. The two civilizations have been keeping a graceful distance from each other for millennium. The thing in 1962, you’ve got to let it go man. Even Chinese middle school text books use no more than 150 words to mention it. Because the Chinese also dont think its a very proud history. They thought China and India were 3rd world brothers back then. when brothers quarrelled, we should keep it low key when that happen.
Back in the 1950s and even earlier, there was mutual respect and there were no signs of animosity between China and India..heck, our then PM, J Nehru even coined the phrase “Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai” (Indians and Chinese are brothers). Both were populous nations with a very large number of people in abject poverty back then..they faced similar challenges and so had many avenues through which they could have become steadfast partners. But 1962 came as a rude shock and while India’s political brass may not have been completely blameless in that matter, it shattered the 2000+ years of mutual respect and peace.
But what has harmed relations even more has been the Chinese adopting the Pakistanis as a sort of proxy post 1962, providing them with cheap arms and the first nuclear bomb design and other covert assistance to their nuclear weapons and missile programs. That has significantly affected India’s security overall since Pakistan is the more adventurous neighbour. While no one in India wants to ever have a war with China, 1962 has ensured that the guard will never be let down and the humiliation of that defeat will never be repeated. Plus, there are border issues that have existed since 1962 and are not any closer to resolution (such as Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh and Aksai Chin). I think in the mind of the India military planners, China presents the bigger threat thanks to the resources at their disposal and their sheer size. Pakistan can be tackled and defeated even with mistakes made during a conflict by India, but mistakes against Chinese aggression could prove far more fateful.
1962, you’ve got to let it go man. Even Chinese middle school text books use no more than 150 words to mention it. Because the Chinese also dont think its a very proud history. They thought China and India were 3rd world brothers back then. when brothers quarrelled, we should keep it low key when that happen.[/QUOTE]
BlackArcherAll these past decades, there has only been one trend in terms of price of a product & cost of production.
So, can you explain how Airbus who offered 6 x A3330 MRTT for around $2billion in 2009-2010 with the same “better life-cycle cost” over IL-78 is able to offer 6 x A330 MRTT in 2012 for $1billion?
They’re not offering them for any cheaper. What the IAF realised is that their earlier evaluation was flawed, since it didn’t take into account life-cycle costs, which tend to be higher on Russian platforms since their system and sub-system MTBOs and MTBFs tend to be lower and maintenance man hours higher. The A-330MRTT also has lower fuel costs and spares will be cheaper since there are a lot of them in service.
By including life-cycle costs into the equation, the A-330MRTT was found to be L1 even though its program acquisition costs are higher.
Another thing I don’t understand is whether Ilyushin offered IL-78MK converted from used IL-76 or the new IL-476.
As far as I know, there is no production for Il-76 and IL-476 for export market is at least 3 years away. So cant understand how this became a contest.
That hasn’t been clarified. My guess is that it would have been converted airframes from used Il-76s, although I may be totally wrong in this regard.
BlackArcherArmy helicopters to get UV missile warning systems
Chandigarh, November 4
Plans are afoot to equip helicopters of the Army Aviation Corps (AAC) with ultra-violet (UV)-based missile approach warning systems.These systems, which have certain advantages over similar radar or infra-red-based detectors, are meant to warn pilots of an incoming missile to enable them to take counter-measures.
Defence public sector undertaking Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) is set to take up the project for developing the UV-based systems. “We are at the stage of contract negotiations with the Army,” BEL Director HN Ramakrisha told The Tribune here today.
“Deliveries will be done in 12 to 18 months after the contract is finalised,” he added. The estimated value of the contract is over Rs 350 crore.
UV-based systems provide early warning by detecting the UV energy produced by an incoming missile’s smoke plume and computing its distance and direction. These are stated to be better than IR systems at low attitudes and in cluttered environments, besides having a much lower probability of false alarms. These are also simpler than radar or IR systems and have low life cycle costs.
The Army plans to initially equip its fleet of Chetaks, which are meant for liaison, search- and-rescue and aerial recce, with UV systems though these can also be retrofitted on the Cheetahs and Dhruvs at a later stage.These systems are primarily meant for warning against shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles. So far only the US, Israel, Germany and Sweden have such systems.
Developing missile warning systems for the Army also assumes significance in the backdrop of the government’s recent decision to give the Army control of all attack helicopters. The Mi25/35 helicopter gunships and some squadrons of Chetak helicopters outfitted with anti-tank missiles, though meant to support ground operations, are operated by the Air Force. Future acquisitions of attack helicopters will also be the Army’s domain.
BlackArcherall that picture proves is that its a huge airplane.. and that’s why people don’t like its look. its excessively large, and its size accentuates its boxy features making it look like a suit case.
it only looks good from the front shots because its hiding how long it is.
its like that picture fat chicks put up that focus only on their heads and crops the rest of the body.
😀
BlackArcherPAFs induction of the F-60/J-31 actually depends on the amount of Pakistani “input” into the development of the F-60 / J-31 …
Th J10A was without the said ‘input’ and for all the talk of loyal ally and mountains/rivers/oceans/whatnot the J10A was never inducted by the PAF ..
The J10A had NOT met PAF specifications/requirements and PAF wanted further improvements as per their input.The J10B is supposed to have the said “input” and finally PAF will be inducting 36 of them …
Compared to the J10A, the JF17 with “significant” Pakistani input has been inducted in numbers … A couple squadrons have already been raised ..
So in light of all this, the J31/F60 flying in PAF colours all depends on the level of Pakistani input and standards/requirements ….
Would be safe to say that the mini stealth dragon could make an appearance in the B version for the PAF late in 2020s or early 2030s ….
Considering the probable timelines, Bangladesh and India can breathe easy for now at least .. Things however might change rapidly once the induction of the F60/J31 B version starts with PAF. 😮
the Pakistanis will want a stealthier JF-17 variant to be developed with Chinese support sometime later this decade. Its a lot cheaper to acquire and operate plus they can build them at PAC Kamra.
As for the J-31, the Pakistanis cannot contribute anything to that program since there is nothing that they develop that the Chinese cannot develop on their own. Even on the JF-17, the Pakistani contribution is mostly limited to specifications, testing and not related much to sub-systems on board the aircraft itself.
In the past, they have acquired fighters from China and then sort of westernized those variants with Grifo radars and Western HUDs and IR missiles. If China is ok with that (that’s assuming the PAF feels Western equipment is better), they’ll allow that to ensure the J-31 gets exported, but one never knows.
My guess is that in the early 2020s itself, we may see the PAF trying to get its hands on the J-31.
BlackArcherX and Y airplanes are demonstrators with no path to becoming operational. The demonstrator role is to verify aerodynamic performance. For expediency, non-optimized, off-the-shelf equipment is used. When it is time to build real combat airplanes, the X and Y designs are trashed and the design starts over.
if you trash the design after the demonstrator phase is over, then whats the point of the demonstrator phase at all?
In reality, the demonstrator will establish whether the base line design is sound or not and whether it meets expected performance in some parts of the envelope. Based on those results, it can be tweaked, and a final production configuration will then start to be worked on including the full FBW and avionics fit.
The demonstrator may not be the operational variant, but it is a huge step towards getting there. If the J-20 and J-31 follow normal established timelines for the 4th gen projects we’ve seen, they’ll take another 10 years or more to get to operational status. a lot of funding may help to somewhat compress the schedule but some issues may need time and effort to be resolved and just throwing money may not help.
BlackArcherJ-17.
DSI.
Nuff said.
😀
But if DSI alone were enough then wouldn’t the F-35 (the progenitor of that concept which, ahem, “inspired” the DSI on the JF-17) actually come first?:p
BlackArcherThis one’s a looker. Much more graceful than its larger sibling.
I agree. far better looking than the ugly J-20.
BlackArcherPakistan operated the Nanchang Q-5/A-5 and the Shenyang J-6, both of which were twin engined.
thanks for the correction, but they were twin engined yet light strike fighters. Pakistan hasn’t operated heavier twin engined fighters. The J-31 twin 2 RD-33 engines is markedly heavier than any of their previous fighters and will cost proportionately higher to operate.
BlackArcherAs for the J-31, first thought coming to my head is “baby-raptor”:D. If China and SAC plays their cards right, J-31 can be one of the most commercially succesful fighters of this century. Here’s to many, many F-35 contracts snatched!:diablo:
But most of the F-35’s current customers and likely future customers are unlikely to want Chinese equipment since they’re either part of NATO or have been using Western equipment for a long time. Unlikely that they’ll switch to a J-31 even if it turns out to be good. I’d expect long time Chinese customers like Pakistan, Egypt and possibly even Iran to be interested in this fighter.
although Pakistan hasn’t operated a twin engined fighter anytime and prefers single engined fighters due to their lower operating and maintenance costs, unless a heavily modified JF-17 appears in the next 10 years, they’re very likely to take a long hard look at the J-31.
BlackArcherThe AMCA is actually in the MiG-29 class, so it will be somewhat similar to the J-31 in overall empty weight, payload and max take off weights. Looking at dimensions of the AMCA models displayed so far, it appears to be slightly longer though, with a finer aspect ratio.
As for Bangladesh, they neither consider China to be a threat, nor Pakistan, which is separated by the vast land mass of India. Since they had difficulty in maintaining a flying a decent MiG-29 force itself, any 5th gen platform will be even harder for them to afford. My guess is that they’ll be a likely JF-17 customer in the coming decade, having operated J-7s for a long time now and being comfy with Chinese equipment.
BlackArcherThere we go..the A-330MRTT is found to be L1 in the tender for the tanker transport for the IAF. Just hope that this tender doesn’t run into any controversies and that the deal goes through so the IAF has 6 more tanker transports.
BlackArcherremarkable ! congratulations to the Chinese !
BlackArcherAnother piece of news from SNaik-
IN’s Kilo class submarine INS Sindhu rakshak (translated loosely into Indus Protector) has completed its modernization and is out for sea trials ! News later confirmed by this article
An Indian Kilo class diesel-electric submarine that has been overhauled at the Zvezdochka shipyard in northern Russia has sailed for two-week sea trials, the company said.
INS Sindhurakshak, which was handed over to the Indian Navy in 1997, has been upgraded under a direct contract between the Zvezdochka shipyard and the Indian defense ministry, signed on June 4, 2010.
“The Indian submarine, which has been repaired and modernized at the Zvezdochka shipyard, sailed for sea trials on Monday,” the company said in a statement.
The upgrade program stipulated a complete overhaul of the submarine, including its hull structures, as well as improved control systems, electronic warfare systems, and an integrated weapon control system. The upgrade is reported to cost around $80 million.
The sub is expected to be delivered to India by the end of 2012, following a series of additional tests.
Russia has built ten Kilo class submarines for India and has already overhauled four of them: INS Sindhuvir, INS Sindhuratna, INS Sindhughosh, and INS Sindhuvijay.
The overhauled Indian submarines are equipped with 3M-54 Club-S (SS-N-27) anti-ship cruise missiles, the Indian-developed USHUS sonar, CCS-MK radio communications system and Porpoise radar.
BlackArcherSNaik posted on the BRF forum that
Delivery of F 46 Tarkash set for November 9.
Good news for the IN ! This will be the 5th Talwar class frigate that will be part of the IN..next is the F 50 Trikand.
This pic of F 50 under construction at the Yantar shipyard was also posted by SNaik
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