BlackArcherDoesn’t really matter what you’re convinced by TR1. the IAF evaluated it and found that it was among the top 2.
BlackArcherI’ll believe it when I see it.
Better believe it now !:diablo:
BlackArcherWow, seems like when I was away at Dubai nothing much was going on, got back yesteday & all this is starting off, nice timing.
But I must say, it doesnt seem much to be excited about when I looked a little more into it. First off, Livefist is so full of it and they twist their words a lot of the time – basically if you want a laugh, read their words. Their credibility is rather poor in my opinion. Secondly, Stratpost seemed to have just put their words together in a 5 minute tea break.
Personally, I’ll wait for the official announcements.
On a slightly different note(s). I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there was a US type shortlisted due to political reasons. The Super Hornet of the two US types would likely make it through although I doubt it’d actually win the MMRCA competition.
If the Typhoon and Rafale do make it through, despite being more (apparantly) expensive than the Rafale, I still think it has the better chance of winning, going by what has been officially published, overall EADS are offering the better deal, to me, EADS is offering more than what is being asked for. All I’ve pretty much heard from Dassault Aviation through various sources published is; “We will respond to the request for proposals,” which is of course, fine, great. But I’m getting the impression that ‘that is all’ they’re offering. (If there is any other information Dassault Aviation has published that I may have missed out concerning India, please remind me.)
Don’t get me wrong, the Rafale is a fine, fantastic piece of kit, technically its brilliant. But I just can’t help think that the French Government and to quite some extent, its makers are letting it down. I’m really surprised that Dassault Aviation hasn’t even offered India some sort of partnership like EADS has with the Tiffy. I believe that France is rather proud of their product, I believe they’re proud to think that ‘it’s ours’, but I do believe that they may need to move away from that just a little bit, whats fine for France may not be fine for other countries.
With that in mind, my take on this is the India Air Force would be better off with the Typhoon where as the Indian Navy would be better off with the Rafale. Stick to what they’re designed for & let them shine in their own way.
Dassault was the first of the lot to actually say that they would offer full ToT, not restricted ToT on some very crucial items such as the AESA and its source codes (which Raytheon made quite clear, was going to depend on US Govt regulations).
There isn’t that much more that EADS is offering compared to Dassault. Offering a partner status to India will not mean much if the overall cost of the Typhoon proposal is more than the Rafale.
Anyway, I’m personally thrilled ! My 2 favourite fighters made the shortlist and the IAF deserves the best. After all, money is not the only criteria for India which has actual threats to face, unlike some other nations.
BlackArcherI’m quite sure Gripen made it to the podium.:D
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/02/could-this-be-mmrca-ranking.html
The three plausible options allowed by the news today were :
- Eurofighter > Rafale > F/A-18I Super Hornet > Gripen IN > F-16IN Super Viper > MiG-35
- Eurofighter > Rafale > Gripen IN > F/A-18I Super Hornet > F-16IN Super Viper > MiG-35
- Rafale > Eurofighter > Gripen IN > F/A-18I Super Hornet > F-16IN Super Viper > MiG-35
Since one of the three is true, and since Gripen was ranked third in two of those three options, you know what I mean.
In addition, my hypothesis is supported by my favourite of the three (for personal reasons I won’t disclose :D).
Sadly for SAAB the Gripen NG didn’t make the cut. I do feel bad for them, since they were very enthusiastic about the MRCA competition and really had stepped up to the plate for it.
SAAB’s official statement on not making the shortlist
But they’ve been good losers from reading that communication. Not sore losers. There is a lot of goodwill to be earned and a lot of money yet to be made on the Indian defence market and SAAB have shown maturity in not throwing accusations.
It simply appears that the MoD has chosen the best 2 of the IAF’s evaluation list. And the best part is that is this will hopefully mean that the 2 best contenders will vie for the prize, rather than having politics driving the decision (if Super Hornet/F-16 Block 60 or the MiG-35 made the list). Now it’ll be simply down to which of these 2 contenders offers the best offsets, best price and best ToT.
BlackArcherMay be but unlikely that any of them will ask for compensation.
1. Russians want other big ticket deals they won’t.
2. Boeing looking to sell C 17s , Chinooks, Appaches and more P8 Is
3. Lockheed wanting to sell More C 130Js.
4. SAAB coastal survilance, chamo and other stuff.
So they won’t want to upset the MoD/IAF Its a buyers market take it on the chin and move on.
Mr Quadbike, I think that you were saying that you were going to do some rather serious things (sell your house and the like) if the Gripen or an American jet wasn’t selected for the shortlist of the MRCA.
Maybe its time for you to step up ?:diablo::D
BlackArcherDoes anyone have good picture of the Ka-226 that was send to India for trials for the LOH competition?
here is one
From Livefist blog.
BlackArcherMRCA Shortlist will be out in May
New Delhi: The race for the $10.6-billion contract for 126 medium multi role combat aircraft (MMRCA) is going to gain momentum with the names of the shortlisted candidates expected to be announced by the first week of May.
This would follow the concretisation of offset policy by the government which will be released in the next week. The report of the technical evaluation tests of the six aircraft in fray was submitted to the defence ministry in July last year. However, since then the deal has made little progressed even as Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik asserted in February that the deal should be finalized by September.
The ministry sources have told FE the deal is again gathering steam with a concrete offset policy to be in place by April end.
“The shortlisted candidates for the MMRCA deal would be announced by beginning of May,” said a sourcefrom the ministry.
Following the announcement the commercial negotiations for the contract will begin.
The detailed policy is expected to concretise the opening of the civil aviation and internal security in more certain terms, so that there will be no room for confusion. The defence offsets policy is likely to bring in $10 billion during the 11th Five-Year Plan period (2007-11).
“The changes are likely to provide invitations to offer offsets proposals to be issued to only those vendors who are validated as technically qualified by the respective service. The shortlisted vendor will be invited for opening of their respective commercial bids,” a source said.
The ministry’s Technical Oversight Committee (ToC) is currently looking at the offset proposals submitted by the contenders for the deal.
Currently, both technical and commercial offset proposals need to be submitted by all vendors competing in a tender. Under the current policy, ToE will examine technical offset proposals, and the commercial offset proposals — submitted as sealed proposals — will be opened only when the respective commercial offer for the vendor is opened.
According to sources, the changes are being designed to help the MMRCA tender process, which is governed by the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2006 and plans to seek a legal route for approval to implement the revision with retrospective effect.
Simultaneously, their proposals for transfer of technology, critical for the rapid development of an Indian capability to build advanced fighters, are also being examined.
BlackArcherReport on the creation of the first Tejas squadron (No.45 Flying Daggers) in the IAF
BlackArcherBoom asks for the source of some cryptic one liner of yours and you come up with a totally unrelated one liner..wow !:rolleyes:
BlackArcherTwenty rupee bet ?
As if you know who I am or I know who you are and would actually get something out of a bet you’d lose. :rolleyes:
BlackArcherIts from the ACM and looks like he wants to leave behind a good legacy.
he’s just trying to put pressure on the GoI to take it forward quickly. it isn’t going to be signed before he retires. Not a chance.
BlackArcherDhruv MkIIIs will start serving at Siachen soon. It far exceeded the required performance specs at Siachen’s Sonam Post, something Gp Cpt Hari Nair had mentioned earlier too.
In Siachen, Dhruv proves a world-beater
Ajai Shukla / Bangalore March 7, 2011, 0:48 ISTIt was a brutal test of helicopter and pilot. As the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) shuddered towards the icy helipad on a 21,000-foot ledge overlooking the Siachen Glacier, the pilots could see wreckage from earlier helicopter crashes dotting the base of the vertical ice walls on either side. Ahead lay the Indian Army’s infamous Sonam Post, the highest inhabited spot on earth, and an extreme example of why the military so urgently wants the Dhruv, which has been customised by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) for high altitude operations.
Very quickly, the Dhruv demonstrated its superiority over the military’s tiny, single-engine Cheetah helicopters, which can barely lift 20 kilos of payload to Sonam. Touching down on a tiny H-shape formed on the snow with perforated iron sheets, the Dhruv’s pilots signalled to one of the soldiers on Sonam to climb aboard. Effortlessly, the Dhruv took off, circled the post and landed again. Another soldier clambered onto the helicopter and the process was repeated, then with a third, and then a fourth soldier. Even with all Sonam’s defenders on board, the twin-engine Dhruv — painted incongruously in the peacock regalia of the IAF’s aerobatics team, Sarang — lifted off and landed back safely.
“This helicopter is simply unmatched at high altitudes,” says Group Captain Unni Nair, HAL’s chief helicopter test pilot, who flew the Dhruv that August morning during “hot-and-high” trials at Sonam. That term means flying at extreme altitudes in summer, when the heat-swollen oxygen is even thinner than usual. “The army wanted the Dhruv to lift 200 kilos to Sonam; we managed to carry 600 kilos.”Powering that world-beating performance is a new helicopter engine, called the Shakti, which HAL commissioned French engine-maker, Turbomeca, to design for operations along India’s high-altitude borders. It is this engine that makes the new Dhruv Mark III — the first five of which were delivered to the army this month — far superior to the Mark I and Mark II Dhruvs, which were built with a less versatile engine. The Shakti, which will start being built under licence at HAL soon, will now power an entire family of HAL-built helicopters: an armed version of the Dhruv; the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH); and the single-engine Light Utility Helicopter that is still on the drawing board.
The Shakti-powered Dhruv Mark III is changing the operational dynamics on India’s high-altitude Himalayan defences. The capability to airlift soldiers will allow far-flung posts to be manned with fewer soldiers. In a crisis, jawans can be airlifted quickly from lower altitudes to threatened areas, and casualties can be evacuated.
HAL Bangalore has already begun handing over Dhruv Mark IIIs to the Leh-based 205 Aviation Squadron for operations in Siachen. With the military demanding 159 Dhruvs in quick time, HAL can hardly build these helicopters fast enough. This year’s production rate of 25 Dhruvs will be accelerated from 2012 to 36 helicopters annually. The current order includes 54 weaponised Dhruvs — termed Advanced Light Helicopter — Weapons Systems Integrated, or ALH-WSI — armed with anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles, rockets and a 20-millimetre turret gun. The ALH-WSI is scheduled to begin weapons trials in Orissa in April.
BlackArcherProblems with Russia on cost for modifying the Su-30 to carry Brahmos (which isn’t a 300 kg missile)
BlackArcherIt would have been helpful to remove the pathetic OT rant posted above the warning.
Back on topic, so we can safely say it’s not as expensive as the F-22 but it is more expensive than the F-35 it seems. Either way its been a real disaster for the RAF. I remember people claiming it only cost £45 to £55 million a few years back too.
It is your pathetic talk about Britain giving foreign aid (which in India’s case isn’t even wanted and the GoI has made that clear :rolleyes:) that is detracting from the thread’s main topic of discussion and needed a riposte.
Anyway, I’ll heed Grey Area’s post and desist from this line of nonsense that you have mentioned SEVERAL times before on this forum. My last post on this.
BlackArcherRay, whats the source of this image (possible image?) of the FGFA ?
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