I don’t think that Jaguars operate at a higher altitude than Mirage-2000s in the IAF. At most the Jaguars operate at medium altitude since they’re underpowered at higher alts. yet the Mirages don’t have black anti-glare paint applied whereas the Jaguars do.

My guess is that certain aircraft have problems with glare on the HUD due to their nose slant and that to take care of that issue, this paint is applied.

I doubt the M2k or MiG-29UPG will last any longer than 2025. These upgrades are merely a stop gap until the AMCA/MMRCA are available, because these will be the true successors for aircraft like the MiG-23/27/29, Jaguar and M2k. Tejas will replace the MiG-21s. I suppose the the FGFA will ultimately replace the Su-30MKI when it is fielded in numbers. By the time the FGFA is likely to be inducted the oldest Su-30MKIs are 15-20 years old. By the time 200-250 FGFAs are in service ~2030 at the earliest the fleet will be another ten years older. I think that the FGFA is not complementary to the Su-30MKI but in fact its successor in the mid term. Upgraded “medium” fighters/attackers in the IAF will be phased out when enough MMRCA and Tejas are around to allow them to be withdrawn without further declining squadron numbers. I’m yet interested to see when the AMCA gets ready, is there even a timeline?

The IAF has committed to the AMCA and preliminary funding has been provided as well, and work should begin in mid-2011. First prototype should be rolled out by 2017, so given around 7-8 years from first flight to the time it reaches IOC it may be entering squadron service around 2025 or thereabouts. FOC will be a couple of years after that maybe.

The upcoming Aero-India 2011 should be a time when a lot more information will be available and a possible final configuration will be shown to the public.

Since Snecma’s tie up with GTRE for the Kaveri’s further development is now supposedly very close (as mentioned by a Snecma exec recently during Sarkozy’s visit) they should hopefully have a working 90kN thrust engine by 2017-18 at least.

Plans for Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft
Y. Mallikarjun

HYDERABAD: India has embarked upon an ambitious project to indigenously design and develop a fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) by 2017.

The government released Rs. 100 crore last month to the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which will spearhead the project, to prepare feasibility studies in 18 months.

Disclosing this to reporters here on Saturday, ADA Director and Programme Director (Combat Aircraft) P.S. Subramanyam said AMCA, when developed and produced, would probably be the first medium combat aircraft with 20 tonne weight in the world. Similar aircraft being developed by the United States and Russia are in the range of 30 to 35 tonnes.

Mr. Subramanyam said AMCA was meant to fill the gap for the Indian Air Force as the Light Combat Aircraft (Tejas) would meet the low-end requirement and Sukhoi-30, the higher end. Once inducted, the IAF would have small, medium and heavy combat aircraft…

A large part of the aircraft would be made of carbon composites. The entire project would cost $ 2 billion.

Once the funds were received after the submission of the feasibility report, the agency planned to develop two technology demonstrators and seven prototypes, he said. ADA was identifying technologies for 5th generation combat aircraft. Earlier, Mr. Subramanyam made a presentation on Technological Challenges in Future Fighter Aircraft at the Aviation Conclave which concluded on Saturday.

Plans for AMCA

more details are available on this page and AW&ST had a very recent report on it as well.

Black R-73.. not sure about the angle, as same MiG-29 models and Su-30 models have black and no black! even within the same air force 😮

Black R-73?

Anyway, all IAF MiG-29s have the black anti-glare paint applied in front of the canopy. I don’t really get what you’re saying here.

It must be a national preference coupled with the cockpit angle downwards to the radome. Why else would a regular Indian LCA single seater have no anti-glare paint whereas the twin-seat PV-5 prototype that has a slight nose droop feature the anti-glare paint?

Tejas PV-5 twin seater with small application of anti-glare paint

I dont see the issue of the AESA RADAR or its technology to be specific a big issue, India has the chance to buy an Israeli AESA radar for the LCA and it has now just signed a contract with Sukhoi to develop a Fifth gen aircraft and there is also talk of future upgrades of the Su-30MKI containing Russian AESA radars…Also would SALEX not sell an AESA radar to India if it needed one?

So I really do not see the need to spend an arm an a leg on the MMRCA for an AESA radar. Considering the MMRCA (technologically) will be a stop gap until the FGFA comes into service and the LCA MK2 is fly it makes very little sense to buy an expensive aircraft.

Spend as little as you can and use the money that you saved for the AMCA program.

India is not buying AESA radars for the LCA from Israel. They have an indigenous AESA radar program in the works and they are now seeking to partner with either Elta or EADS. A RFP is out in that regard. This AESA is to be used on the Tejas Mk2 variant that is due to be operational by 2017 or so.

And the purpose of the MRCA is not merely to get AESA radars. That is quite an inane assumption really. the AESA is but one aspect of the whole MRCA program, albeit an important one.

The main point here is to get a fighter that is proven and at least to some point, mature in capabilities, yet has technologies and upgradability that will allow it to be kept operationally relevant for another 3 decades.

The Tejas can fly longer, but it currently doesn’t yet have the OBOGS fitted on. This will be done sometime next year since the OBOGS was certified only recently.

Without an OBOGS, the fighter needs to carry onboard liquid oxygen for the pilot and his g-suit pressurisation and this puts a limit on the fighter’s endurrance. For longer duration sorties, more cylinders are needed, and if OBOGS was meant to be used, then they would make no special arrangements to add additional cylinders for longer duration sorties.

It has nothing to do with anything else. With 2 external 1200 litre drop tanks and 2400 litres of internal fuel, it can easily fly for more than double the duration currently quoted.

More details on the PAK-FA project between HAL and Sukhoi.

NEW DELHI: It will take a decade for India to begin inducting the first lot of the 250-300 advanced stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) it is going to jointly develop and manufacture with Russia.

As per the detailed roadmap finalised between India and Russia, the “series production” of FGFA will be launched in 2019, with the actual deliveries to begin in 2020, sources said.

The stage for the entire FGFA programme, which will see India spending upwards of $35 billion over the next two decades in its biggest-ever defence project, will finally be set this week.

With Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in town, New Delhi and Moscow will ink the $295 million preliminary design contract (PDC) for FGFA on Tuesday. Then, over the next 18 months, the two sides will work out the detailed design and other agreements to kickstart the actual building of FGFA.

“Forty Indian designers and scientists will be stationed in Russia, with a similar number of Russians here. A secure data link will also be set up to ensure both sides are fully in the picture all the time,” said a source.

The total cost of designing, infrastructure build-up, prototype development, flight testing and the like has been pegged at around $11 billion, with both sides chipping in with $5.50 billion each in the “50-50% partnership”.

India, for instance, will spend $2.50 billion of its $5.50 billion share in setting up infrastructure for manufacturing plants, tooling facilities and hangars.
…..

Cash-strapped Russia is already flying the prototype of its single-seater FGFA called Sukhoi T-50. While the Indian FGFA will basically be based on this fighter, it will “be tweaked to meet IAF requirements”.

For one, IAF wants a twin-seater FGFA, with one pilot actually flying the jet and the other handling sensors and weapon systems. Russia, however, feels adding a second cockpit will “adversely impact” the stealth.

For another, IAF is keen on a new engine with “a greater thrust” than the one Russia is currently using for its FGFA. “All these things will take time and money… Six to seven prototypes should be flying by 2017. It will take about 2,500 hours of flying to get the final flight certification,” he said.

With IPR (intellectual property rights) being “equally and jointly vested”, India and Russia may also decide to sell the FGFA to “third countries” by mutual consent.

FGFA to be delivered in 2020

I don’t think its size going to be as big as typhoon, its probably going to be an lightweight fighter and the two seated trainer version. But sure it must have better capabilities than the aging F-16s! So I think we can call it at least 4,5 generation! But I don’t know how much foreign support will the Turkish defence industry need or will they! But if we think that, its the first Turkish indigenous fighter aircraft project and some components will need to get from abroad or there will create joint ventures. Maybe a foreign partner for getting some key technologies. But the design and the integration of the systems will be done by the Turkish Aerospace Industries, TAI. So its a good project for the Turkish aerospace industries to increase their capabilities with such a complex fighter aircraft project 🙂

It will be a tough task to better the F-16..does Turkey have experience in developing the Fly-by-wire or Fly-by-light FCS that modern fighters have? Even South Korea didn’t attempt its first fighter on its own and needed Lock Mart’s assistance.

That apart, what experience does Turkey have in advanced wind tunnel testing, CFD, AESA radars, electro-optical systems and in stealth technologies? The Hurkus may well be a challenging program but a new 4.5 gen fighter will be a lot more challenging. Integrating equipment sourced from abroad will be easier than developing all this in-house in such a short time-frame.

They will either have to seek a partner like EADS, Saab, Boeing or Lockheed Martin otherwise this will be an exceedingly difficult task to achieve. The approach taken by TAI for the T-129, that is going with an existing A-129 design and improving on it will be more practical.

Could this be just a bargaining tactic to get South Korea to offer more of an equal partnership in the KF-X ?