imagine had they gone the boeing route. look how fast they handled the t-x
Supposedly the X-32 wasn’t generating enough thrust when in hover mode to the point where they stripped down the airframe to shed some pounds. The additional thrust was the big benefit of the lift fan approach.
Considering the amount of weight growth the F-35 saw I don’t think the “F-32B” would prove a success. The reason that method of STOVL works well for the Harrier is because that is a relatively simple aircraft in comparison. Smaller, no internal weapons bays, less avionics, no requirement for supersonic speeds, etc.
Here, two designs the STVOL on top and the conventional bellow:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]251674[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]251675[/ATTACH]
Interesting mix of both Lockheed and Boeing JSFs on deck.
I’ve heard it claimed that in fly-offs and such the DoD tends to down select to a “high risk” and “low risk” option. In the case of the JSF tech demonstrators the X-35 was the higher risk entry with more unknowns while the X-32 was lower risk since that method of achieving STOVL was already used on the Harrier.
For some reason lift jets were viewed very negatively and as a result the McD design wasn’t selected for further development.
I know the shaft-driven lift fan was LM’s pet project and they put a lot of work into it but part of me wishes McD could have been allowed to redesign their aircraft around that configuration. Perhaps more competition at a later stage, after a method of STOVL had been decided upon, would have been a good choice.
McDs for the Navy or USAF/USMC?
If were running the show there would have been no USN JSF variant. Just USAF, USMC, and RAF/RN as the primary partners. The McDonnell Douglas design would compete against the Lockheed design in a flyoff much as what occurred with the actual Boeing X-32 and Lockheed X-35.
The Navy’s own fighter program would be focused around a larger aircraft with greater high speed, high altitude performance. Sorta like the cancelled NATF. There would be full technologies shared between the programs however, hopefully resulting in some commonality in avionics.
Has there been any detailed mention of the F-35’s flight characteristics from those operating the jet at Red Flag? Similarities to the F/A-18?
? its news to me that su-33 has canards, was it always like that ?
Maybe I’m mistaken but I think the Su-27K and Su-33 always had canards. It makes more sense for that variant of the Flanker than the inclusion of canards on some Su-30 variants and the Su-35 (not the Su-35BM though).
I have a hard time believing Russia is considering this after how recently Russia and Turkey were enraged at each other. Plus the fear (justified or not) that this could give the rest of NATO access to their much-hyped S-400.
I imagine SAAB wouldn’t be too pleased although such possibilities could have been already settled in whatever partnership contract was signed between the companies.
Based on the RAF and RN experience with the Harrier family I think they absolutely made the right choice. In an ideal world CATOBAR operations with the F-35C and some AEW aircraft would provide a more capable air wing but the UK armed forces currently don’t have the budget for all that would require. The F-35B will still provide excellent capabilities far beyond the Harrier IIs the Invincible class operated.
Hmm, some of these go beyond the realm of the JSF but I’ll give it a shot.
– No carrier variant, the Navy needs their own program for a new fighter entering service by 2020 or sooner
– McDonnell Douglas’ proposal is selected over Boeing’s for further development (although this may be cheating since we all know the future of Boeing’s design)
– Requirement for Mach 1.8 top speed, target of Mach 2.0
– Requirement for Mach 1.1 cruise speed, target Mach 1.2 or greater
– Target weights of 26,000 lbs empty for CTOL and 28,500 lbs empty for STOVL
– No cutting features related to damage survivability
– Requirement to carry six air-to-air missiles internally
– If possible more ammo for internal gun on CTOL variant and for the STOVL variant’s gun pod
– Stress the need to continue F-22 production and the fact that the two aircraft complement each other
I’d love to speed up the whole development and flight testing process but have no clear ideas on how to do this. I’d also keep the large amount of concurrency in order to speed up actually fielding the aircraft.
Why do I get the sense that those who criticize the F-35 for not being sent over to Syria to drop some JDAMs on on mud huts will criticize the F-35’s first deployment to bomb mud huts as an over-expensive publicity showing?
Actually you don’t need tu22m for saturated attack. Su-34 can theoretically carry 3000L fuel tank on center line and 8 antiship missiles. This make carrier completely ineffective. The only advantage of tu22m upgrades is if missiles are internally carried and launched at Mach 2 dash from aircraft.
I don’t want to derail this thread but I was referring to the Tu-22M because of the truck-sized long range Mach 3 AShMs it could carry like the AS-4 Kitchen (NATO designation). No fighter that I know of can carry those rather unique weapons. The question of just how survivable a carrier battle group is has been debated since the first generation of Soviet AShMs and should probably be left to another topic.
Sure I agree although losses still occurred with B and D models which had the GE110. There were only ever 55 F-14Ds, 37 new build and 18 re-manufactured and 86 F-14Bs, 38 new build and 48 re-manufactured. Re-engineering a lot of F-14s into Super Tomcats still wouldn’t have rationalised the naval airwing as was one of the primary purposes of going SH.
I don’t know how extensive the re-manufacture was. Were airframes reset to 0 flight hours? I think that overall the Super Tomcat route would have proven more expensive but in-theory navair could have settled on the F-14D with a follow-on “F-14E” featuring a lot of the ST-21 options.
Regarding Trumps recent comments I don’t think there is much of a case to keep Super Hornet production going once the F-35C enters service. I hope Boeing has a killer F/A-XX design in the works as Lockheed has enough on their plate already.
The F-14 had one sole advantage over the Hornets which was the AIM-54 for long range interception but that threat left in the middle 90s and still hasn’t re-emerged. In that time USN surface based defences have improved. The F-14 was in no way a better WVR aircraft than either Hornet and is debatable for long range interception over the SH. It was a difficult aircraft to maintain and had a high accident rate for a carrier aircraft.
I don’t think the threat has gone away entirely. Russia still maintains a sizable force of bombers including those same cruise missile armed Tu-22Ms which were such a threat back in the day. The F-14D at least was clearly better suited for interception over the F/A-18E or F/A-18F. Yet that final variant was only built in small numbers.
A lot of the maintenance and accident troubles can be attributed to the F-14A which was cursed with an inadequate engine, the newer F-14s were certainly much better in those regards. By no means was the Super Hornet ultimately a bad choice, but the new Super Tomcats had all of the right stuff to serve well into the future had the Navy gone that route instead.
i believe you are an F-18 pilot so you should know acceleration of F-18,
according to this F-35C needs 108 sec, so how does it compare to F-18E ?
While I wish that were true I am not a F/A-18 pilot unfortunately. Just a naval aviation enthusiast. I am only going off the remarks of an F-35C test pilot and how the F/A-18E’s acceleration is known to be rather “mediocre” so I could be wrong.
Why do you think the USN would pick something different? The only thing that I can think of that they would want to change would be 2xF414 instead of an F135.
The Super Hornet and F-35C offer rather similar performance characteristics (range, payload, agility) with the biggest differences being in stealth and sensors. In many respects both are replacements for the same aircraft (the original F/A-18). Had the Navy the opportunity to pick their own aircraft I think they would have gone for something a bit different. Still multi-role but perhaps with significantly longer range or better high altitude high speed performance.
The A/F-X program prior to JSF was firstly an attack aircraft with a secondary fighter role but if the Navy could get a “retry” I wonder if those priorities would have been reversed. Consider the advances in Chinese airpower and elsewhere.
Ultimately the poor recent record of naval aviation procurement starting with the disastrous A-12 Avenger II almost certainly limited how much input the Navy would have in the JSF.