Now there’s an idea for as to where XH558 could finally come to rest!
Classic Air Force Museum would be there for the visitor throughput, huge hangar to house it, plenty of room to taxy, and some relevancy to the V-Bomber ORPS built there and practice deployments to them, and regular Vulcan excercises that were held there!

Great Idea … that was my second choice after Bruntingthorpe in the VTTSC Forum Poll 😉

Bruce -as you rightly say it wasn’t VTTS’s booking that took her to Woodford.
As has been pointed out by many this was possibly the most significant year in the operation of the Vulcan. By taking part at Southport, Woodford and Carfest she effectively was taken off doing any fly overs in the North West on the tour she carried out. Whilst some would argue two of the events being notified before hand was enough -there are many with North West roots (including me) that see
a huge significance in AVRO built aircraft flying over the North West -with Chadderton and Woodford being prime sites..

David
Do you not read/listen to anything that is said to you?

I have already said that she will go nowhere unless somebody pays the bill first because VTTST can’t afford to fund it.

I have also said that even at 59000ft she used 2 gallons to the mile which equates to 10 ltrs at 59p per ltre which equals…..£5.90 per mile ….. and thats just the fuel…

At 10000ft I would guess you could conservatively double or even treble, maybe more of the fuel burn… you do the maths….

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As maybe a pointer for the future VTTS could consider a ‘meet and greet’ style tour if it does become her last season . Find geographic positions that would accept her landing and be able to have some kind of public notification and indeed fundraising . To give her some outreach I would suggest a landing in Scotland -a visit to St Mawgan and maybe somewhere like Manston to cover the South East.

OMG….Here you go again… who is going to pay for this? considering the fuel costs alone for your 500 or 600+ mile round trip?

Add to this the landing fees, crew accomodation/support, plus ground crew transportation/accomodation/support costs, and for transportation of GPU, Stad, TOWING ARM and spare parts that would be required, to your 2-3 landing sites at either ends of the country…

This alone would take a couple of 40ft Artics and hired drivers and days of travelling..plus anything, costwise I have not covered.. and that is just the operational side and dosn’t include the Vulcan Village/merchandising/PR support on the various landing sites and all their transportation, accomodation and support costs.. A logistical nightmare..:eek::eek:

Just not feasable… you mentioned fantasy/cloud cuckoo land somewhere earlier….. this idea sure is…:rolleyes:

Denis -its not a comment on who booked Woodford. To upset people who worked there shows that maybe a little more imagination could have come into play. There is a sizeable cost in getting her to the area – to attend a charity car show and a private event is fine -it doesn’t take a massive amount of imagination to come up with a fly over of somewhere that won’t cost massive congestion and please people who maybe don’t have the ability or funds to attend events.

David
That aircraft goes nowhere unless it’s paid for.. a few years ago a simple flyby started at around £5k and going upwards on a sliding scale, depending how much of a diversion from the primary flight track there was to its next venue.
That aircraft is a thirsty beast and in service she carried a full fuel load of 9600gallons which gave it a range of approx 4600mls, at its most economic operational altitude of 56000ft…

Ergo, at its best?………..approx 2 galls to the mile…

Now 558 operates at a max of 10000ft where the fuel burn is considerably higher… I have the actual figures somewhere from when I did presentations for the Trust .

To give you an idea.. when we had her at Bruntingthorpe on a fast taxy..

20seconds at full power?… fuel burn was around… £1,000 …..and that was in the mid 1990s….

It’s the same now..When we run our Victor [which has 33% more thrust than the Vulcan] and the Comet at our CWJ Days, they both return with their oleos about an inch to inch and a half longer due to having burned off a considerable amount of weight in fuel .

I believe that the fuel burn per open day is around …. £6,000-£10,000 mark, plus there other hidden costs such as Tyres, Oils, Nitrogen, Hydraulic Fluid and vented fuel dropped on newly laid tarmac, damage costing many thousands of pounds to repair… yes it’s happened..:eek: :o:o

Problem with all the ‘misinformation’ is we only ever get the TVOC side of events .The Waddington situation wasn’t a surprise -however people are quick to place the blame at the feet of Marshalls when to the best of my knowledge they have never stated their position .

No Comment 😎

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. As for safe flying -well I don’t think people realise how close a run the silica incident was . Whilst the cause was straight forward – the procedures that allowed it to happen must be a serious cause for concern at TVOC..

I’m sure that procedures have now been reviewed and upgraded… after my time I’m afraid..

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As for Woodford – the proposal is to build 950 homes on the site. Aviation doesn’t appear to play any part in the future plans for the site as regards to flying. How displaying the Vulcan there would have any effect on planning is beyond me – it is essentially still an airfield.

Not VTTSTs fault as they had to comply with the requirements of the parties that booked and paid for the Vulcan appearance, but you still insist on blaming them for everything :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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It was made clear in one of the newletters around the time as to why they didn’t announce the Woodford flight, which I have reproduced below.

So there you have it, although I still expect some will blame VttS for not going against the owners wishes.

Btw, it’s worth signing up for the free newsletters as questions like these often get answered,

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/newsletter-sign-up.html

Thanks for clearing this up…it was as I assumed, a private party….. all I wanted to do on here was to correct miss-information being disseminated from a basis of my being part of the project from 1994 to 2009.

As you cannot comment I will also beg to differ on the Waddington saga..

A pity you can’t accept the truth, but I was there and I know the truth… so be it..

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The scrap threat was a joke -the aircraft was taken apart by engineeers -there would have been no shortage of people who would have helped to get her at least mobile to get out of the hangar. Indeed many would argue that an abandonment of the project would have left the aircraft effectively in the hands of the airfield owner -someone who is quite adverse to seeing Vulcan’s scrapped. .

At the time of the “Scrap Threats” the aircraft still belonged to C Walton Ltd and they were not prepared to fund the rebuild as this was estimated to cost almost as much as finishing the project. .

Have no doubts C Walton Ltd would have scrapped the aircraft to get their hangar back.

The engineers had all gone at this time and the project went into suspension for effectivly 3yrs until 2005.

There was only myself and 3 other volunteers who acted as janitors and with C Walton Ltd’s good will, in allowing the aircraft to stay in the hangar at the cost of lost revenue and continued Commercial rates, whilst Dr P attempted to gain funding which culminated in the HLF Grant and the inception of VTTST in 2004 and the arrival on the scene of Felicity Irwin as Fund Raising Supremo

Engineering work recommenced in early 2005…
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The ‘legitamate’ funding policy of selling her abroad appeals to Daily Mail stories but the practicalities and licencing a complex military aircraft for export abroad after you have found someone who wants her is really in the fantasy world. .

Totally agree but it worked didn’t it? 🙂
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The Woodford saga relates to how she displayed there this year but somehow only managed that for a select few guests and not the majority who undoubtedly built the item. .

After my time I’m afraid, perhaps it was a private party and paid for as such as it was not on the Display List was it?

He who pays the piper calls the tune…or the venue in this case?

Perhaps someone can enlighten us on this matter?

he Duxford runway weight is a bit of a red herring -when they relay runways they don’t tend to make them only capable of taking light aircraft ! The assumption that it can only take the likes of Hawk aircraft is nonsence.
At the last American Air Day two American C-130’s operated quite happily from Duxford. Vulcans have landed on grass in the past -I don’t think weight is an issue..

I stand corrected just what I was told….. anyway the CAA will not permit a landing on less than 6000yds….5500 as a special dispensation as they did a Coventry last year for Help the Heros Charity

Denis –I have met people who have worked on the project who have been highly sceptical about it. .

PM me some names and I’m sure I can identify them as people who left the project after the Major… there were a number of contractors who wanted to stay with the project but were refused and have since been versiferous critics of the project and it’s management
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As for leaving a project -yeah I guess it does show my true character. If I felt I wasn’t leading a project in my best ability and it was having a detrimental effect on my health and family life I would step aside.
Maybe your preceive that as weakness -I look at it as having the courage to
put your hand up and say yeah its time I left rather than blindly leading something even if your harming a project more than helping it..

Who says he has been holding the project back? most of the complaints have been about salaries, not his actual handling of the project… there has been no actual proof he has had a detramental effect on the projects future..

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As for determination -its shocking to hear that the HLF bid on the basis of the Vulcan retiring to Duxford was just pie in the sky on the basis of the runway length and condition ..

OMG not Duxford again:eek: ….. The original HLF contract, I believe because I never actually saw the contract, was for her to retire to Duxford (that was before they relayed their runway and said they didn’t want it… I believe?) or an official Museum or a like minded charitable organisation… which if you think about it?….If Ve3 dosn’t get off the ground?… and the HLF exercise their mandate….she’ll end up at Southend because VRT are the only Vulcan orientated charity in this country…

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But as you say he’s not prepared to give up no matter what! .

What is wrong with this?

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As for your note of the ‘red herring’ -we are constantly told that Mr Pleming could earn much more elsewhere and that the project is lucky to have him.
The economic reality is that is he probably better off doing the Vulcan management than still working for his ex employer who layed off ten thousand staff in 2011 and thirteen hundred this year. The world isn’t rosy for project managers in the computer industry.

Tell me?.. in view of this wouldn’t you sit tight? at least he has a job and to my mind doing a good one…. why cut off his nose to spite his face and please the project detractors