Mi-24 have not fly since ’99 and they will be scarped.

That’s what I heard too, due to ” … the deteriorated condidtion of the airframes.”. Is it true that the surplus MiG-21bis are to be sold off? I also saw some speculations in the Croat press that Italy or Hugary would take responsibility for Croat airspace and that the MiG-21s are slated for scrapping in 2006?

Say, can anybody tell me where I can buy this interesting book I found on the balkan website Hawk 75 mentioned or who publishes it? My serbocroatian is a bit rusty 😀

I wish Asia could get a few but too Thailand could offer nothing but frozen chicken.

Eh? I’ve heard about fighters being paid for in palmoil coffee and sugar but chickens?

Okay seeing as I started this thread I think I should try to adjudicate. I did not compare the capabilities of these two aircraft in relation to each other or any other type. I don’t even think that is quantifiable though on the face of it the F22 should come out on top. I was talking about the cost of the Typhoon and comparing that to the cost of the F22 and trying as hard as I might to find out the real costs using yourselves as fellow aviation nuts to help me find out what the real costs are because I am interested.

I am not interested in anti British, anti American, anti Russian or anti whatever BS because some small minded idiot has a cross to bear and a chip on his/her shoulder, a bias point of view and thinks that the Brits or the Yanks or the Ruskies or anybody else can’t build a decent fighter plane worth a damn (scuse the Americanism).

I’m talking about costs so for christs sake get a grip and, if you have a mind, tell me what you know, what you think you know or what you have read about it and try to keep the arguing to a minimum and try to come to some kind of consensus. It matters not one jot to the sales prospects of these machines based on somebody’s opinion of the people who built it.

Thanks

Phil

I don’t give a hoot a about American/European/Russian bashing. The whole point of that DERA simulation seems to have been assess the potential of the F-22 and the Typhoon relative to the same hypothetical opponent. As far as I can tell it was a classic benchmark comparisons. That boils down to finding out how much better is the exchange rate for the F-22 vs the benchmark when compared with the exchange rate for the Typhoon vs the benchmark. I short how much better is the F-22 than the Typhoon. This translates diectly into establishing a monetary yardstick for calculating bang for buck simple enough for Senators/Members of Parilament to use. As it turned out the exchange rate for the F-22 was twice that for the Typhoon so if you can get (just for the sake of argument) three Typhoons for the price of one F-22 you would tend to be paying more than you have to for the F-22 wouldn’t you since your three Typhoons will do more killing than your single F-22 for the same amount of money. If not congratualtions you got a bargain in your F-22. That’s how the beancounters will do the math, that’s how they will present it to the senators/members-of-parliament. Neither beancounters nor politicians are all that interested in the finer points of military theory, just the bottom line. Simple economics for Senators/MPs.

Q: Which is the most advanced version of Mig-21/F/J series ? In terms of

Avionics and …

MiG-21 ‘Bison’

…Manoeuvrebelity?..

F-7PG/J-7G

More pictures:
Iraqi oddfellows, an F-7M and a MiG-21Bis, both in a sorry state:

Strange. I would think the USAF more than capable of conducting such analysis on their own. They would have already analysed sonthing like this to death long before the Brits did their simulation.

The assumption wold be they got similar information inexchange for their own simulations. Of cours if these simlultaions are are based on approximated data like you say they are really fairly worthless. Keep in mind that US simulations would be just as inaccurate without similar data on the Typhoon, knowing is aways better than guessing even in the USA. Let´s just wait for the outcome of the first real Aircraft to Aricraft engagement simulations, they are bound to happen within the next what, three years? We will see soon enough how cost effective the Typhoon is Vs the F-22 when that data rolls in. Until then of cours computer simulations are all we have, like it or not. That being said I´m still not going to swallow a killrate of 20:1 for the F-22 vs the Typhoon that some of the more outrageous US F-22 groupies are claiming.

Going by your reasoning they might as well give data to the Germans and anyone else that goes along to Red Flag. Horrors! What happens if the Frenchies are participating in Red Flag too? I’m sorry, but I believe the brits just approximated the information they had then on the Raptor and went ahead with the simulation. I would rather believe a simulation which the USAF did on their own, or better, info from the IOT&E. The IOT&E had a very interesting scenario, BTW – Attacking an enemy AEW&C platform, guarded by 4 F-15s, IIRC.

I was just pointing out that information exhange was not compeletely unthinkable. I´m hoping that Europe and the US are still allies even if certain European and American leaders are behaving like a bunch of teenage girls. As for the French they will get their own data on the efficienccy of the F-22 stealth system as soon a they get to send some of their Rafales againt the F-22. Rest assured the French just like the Germans and the Britsh wil otfit their aircraft with recording eqipment to thoroughly analyze F-22 stealth performance vs. their fighters radars, passive IR sensors etc. The entire world is already working on ways to take the teeth out of stealth. Alot of the F-22s value for money rating rest sqarely on how hard it will be to neutralize stealth technology

Savage-Rabbit:

I’d take those ratios with a grain of salt.

A lot depends on the capabilities of the F/A-22 as a complete weapons system, and I doubt anyone is privy to much of that information yet.

Of course and I tried to make that point. Just getting the F-22s radar echo profile wrong, ie. how efficient you assume stealth to be, would make a huge difference. That being said the DERA was a UK-MOD entity wasn’t it? You would expect their information to be more accurate than other peoples. If the US trusts anybody with F-22 data it would be the British.