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savage-rabbit

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Viewing 15 posts - 226 through 240 (of 306 total)
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  • savage-rabbit
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    RE is not easy, especially with highly sophisticated Western systems. It is far easier to go with a design from scratch that incorporates ideas gleamed from a S-70 or a F-16 than to make an exact copy. …. So in reverse engineering where there are no or incomplete blueprints, the deviation from the original can be very large (such as the J-7 is to the MiG-21 or the Y-8 to An-12.)

    True, it is hard to copy a design 100% using only a working example of an aircraft but with no access to documentation. You can copy the airframe fairly exactly for example but things like the engine are harder to copy. Eletronics on the other hand are almost impossible to copy these days, you can get some ideas from a working example of a computer or a radar but without documentation that’s all you can gain. Take the J-7C/D (aka J-7III/IIIA) Externally it looks remarkably like a MiG-21MF which was used as the model for this aircraft (apart from the J-7B style brake paracute housing) but internally it is very different. The electronics on this aircraft are mostly Chinese developed. The J-7A (aka. J-7I) was almost identical to the MiG-21-F13 pattern aircraft since it was license produced and came with relatively complete techincal documentation. It was not reverse engineered. The only reverse engineering in the J-7A was where the Russian technical documentation was missing or incomplete. The J-7B on the other hand is a genuinely independent, Chinese development, of the J-7A.

    in reply to: Best F-5 upgrades out there #2671875
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    So it would be down to Singapore and Chile.

    Isn’t it mostly just Chile? I thought the US only sold the AIM-120 to countries who promised not to use it. πŸ˜€

    in reply to: Mig-21bis vs F-5E/F #2672346
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    Me I think the J-7 looks better but would rather have the F-5E/F if I had to pick between all of them. It is a more capable attacker, probably safer to fly and niether owns the field in air combat.

    I would have to agree with that, if I had the choice between buying either used MiG-21’s refurbished and upgraded or factory fresh F-7’s and was then offered to buy, say, ex Swiss air force F-5E fighters and upgrading them to the same standard as the Chilean Air Force has done I’d go for the F-5 unless the political baggage of operating a US design became to heavy. It really just boils down to the difference in design philosophy, the MiG-21 started as a light, short range fighter and the F-5 was designed as a striker which reqired its designers to work more endurance into the design from the get-go. As it turned out the F-5 benefitted from its origins as a striker when it was redesigned for the Air to Air role while the MiG suffered when being pressed into service as a striker which is not surprising.

    β€œwhile the F-5E had the Bullpup radio guided misslie.”

    F-5Es also have the AGM-65B/G.

    I was only comparing the Baseline versions. πŸ˜€ If you want to go into the Upgrades the MiG-21 Bison with a late model Kopyo and its R-77/R-27 combination matches or even beats the Tiger III/2000 with the Elta 2032 and the Derby. The Bison’s air to ground capability is nothing to sneeze at either.

    in reply to: Does Europe has the capability to make a stealth AC #2672355
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    I obviously meant work ethic. Everyone knows Europeans don’t work like we do. Their work day ends at 2 pm, not at 4 or 6 like in the US.

    Duh! my work day ends at 2pm? That’s news to me πŸ˜€ But seriously now, if you want to start a flame war you are going to have to find better insults than that one.

    The Europeans couldn’t have built any of that without our help. As for Germany’s rocket experiments, that was way back pre-WWII when Germany was an entirely different country, so you can’t cite that as proof that modern Germany has the capability to undertake state of the art aerospace projects like stealth fighters.

    Still not impressed! :rolleyes:

    First off it was not an American who invented the Jet engine nor was the concept of swept wing Jet aircraft born in the USA alone. It was the Germans who did much of the pioneering work. Furthermore Most of modern US missile technology has its origins in research and development looted from German factories after the second world war and Nazi German engineers brougth to the US after WWII made a significant contribution to the US space effort for decades after the war. Modern Europe has the ability to design and fly a stealth aircraft. Whether the political will to do so exists is another matter altoghther.

    Next time put some more work into your troll.

    in reply to: Does Europe has the capability to make a stealth AC #2674042
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    I read on the internet a statement of certain American Official that Europe undertand the “theoretical” aspect of the stealth pretty well (ie. algorithms that calculate/predict the RCS of a given geometrical structure), however, what it lacks is the capability to make the the structure of the stealth with sufficient precision and tolerances.

    I’d say that is pure unrefined BS. If there is any problem concerning the implementation of, say, a stealthy replacement for the EF-2000 it is procuring the money and forging the reqired political unity. The capability to design and successfulluy implement a stealth design exists in Europe. If the Americans really think European engineers are such substandard professionals why are US headhunters raiding our universities? By the way, who was the Official?

    in reply to: China's news, pics and speculation thread part 3 #2674217
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    Ahum this one is new to me.

    It looks a bit like an attempt to recycle the Q-5.

    in reply to: China's news, pics and speculation thread part 3 #2674332
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    So China has adopted the one piece windshield on the G? There are some more pics on a chinese forum but not of the avionics. I had one other cockpit picture of the G… But after looking closer it is the Fc1. Look at the wingtips.

    FC-1 That’s even better :D:D:D

    It’s like once in a blue moon one gets decent cockpit photos of these things. I am still missing a good cockpit photo of a J-7B πŸ™ πŸ™ πŸ™

    in reply to: China's news, pics and speculation thread part 3 #2674345
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    So China has adopted the one piece windshield on the G? There are some more pics on a chinese forum but not of the avionics.

    What is the URL?

    in reply to: China's news, pics and speculation thread part 3 #2674364
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    Its nice to finally see operational J-7Gs. The bort numbers 50686 and 50586 indicate 37th regiment, 110th regiment according to http://www.china-military.org. I don’t suppose anybody has a photo that shows more of the cockpit interior?

    http://www.china-military.org/units/lanzhou/37div/images/J-7G_50680.jpg

    in reply to: Mig-21bis vs F-5E/F #2674695
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    Wasn’t this thread about comparing the F-5E with the MiG-21bis? Let’s get it back on topic. πŸ˜€

    It seems to me the F-5E and MiG-21 are not quite 100% directly comparable although they are still very similar in concept. The MiG-21 began as a lightweight, misslie carrying, tactical fighter for point defense as part of a GCI network. It’s secondary ground attack capability seems to have been added as a bit of an after thought. The F-5E on the other hand came into being in the oppisite way to the MiG-21. It was born as an aircraft optimized for air-to-ground work and it was only redesigned later to be more effective for air-to-air work as an afterthought. Both aircraft were of course later upgraded significantly. Here is my bid at a short comparisons of features for the stock MiG-21bis and F-5E, i’ll leave discussion of general performance other than range to others.

    Some general data on ranges with various loads:

    F-5E:
    – Ferry range with maximum fuel (ie. all drop tanks fitted) was 2483 Km = 1543 miles.
    – Combat radius with 2360kg = 5200 lb ordnance load, maximum fuel, and two Sidewinders 313 km = 195 miles.
    – Combat radius with maximum fuel and 2 Sidewinder missiles 1055 km = 656 miles.

    MiG-21bis: (I have found that truly reliable figures are hard to come by.)
    – Ferry range with maximum fuel, probably around of 1200km with 3x480liter tanks and 1600 km with 2×480 liter tanks on the wings and a single 800 liter tank on the centerline.

    I couldn’t find any data on MiG-21bis ranges with external loads, but the J-7III should be a usable substitute:
    – Combat radius of a J-7III missiles and a full set of drop tanks 850 km = 525 miles.
    – Combat radius of a J-7 III with 2×250 kg bombs and a full set of drop tanks 550 km = 340 miles.

    Air-to-ground:
    The F-5E had the advantage of the fact that the MK.80 series being aerodynamically superior to the FAB series and its maximum warload of 3200KG was superior to that of the MiGs which amounted to only c.a. 2200-2500 kg. The F-5E also had the extra wingtip hardpoint which has to count as an advantage. Even with FAB-250s the MiG-21 handled badly and with FAB-500s it must have been a handful but this probably had more to do with the suboptimal aerodynamics of the FAB series than any shortcoming of the MiG-21. AFAIK all MiG-21s from the MiG-21PFM forward could carry beam riding air-to- Kh-66 missiles while the F-5E had the Bullpup radio guided misslie. Neither missile was easy to use and both required the aircraft to line up with the target until impact making them vulnerable to FLAK and SAMs and other fighters. The F-5E also had superior range on internal fuel and it could carry more fuel externally by virtue of its wingtip hardpoints. One final advantage of the F-5E is that it had twin engines which contributed to survivability.

    Air to air:
    I don’t think there is really much to choose from beween the MiG’s twin barreled GSh-23 and the American fighters twin M39 revolver cannon. While the F-5E was limited to the excellent Sidewinder series of heat seekers the MiG-21bis had a more varied selection of air-to-air missiles. At first glance the MiGs R-3R radar guided missile would seem to be an advantage but this missile was of limited use due to it’s short range and inability to engage maneuvering targets. The R-3S also had reliability problems. The R-60 however was more reliable and it gave the MiG-21bis an advantage in that the R-60s launch rail made it possible to carry two missiles on one pylon which went some way toward cancelling out the advantages the F-5E derived from its wing rails. The R-13M was also a very definite improvement over the R-3S. I can’t really compare the Sapfir-21 to the units used on the F-5E since I kon alot less about the American radars than Russian ones. Perhaps somebody else could elaborate? The MiG-21bis also had the Lazure datalink, I don’t know if the F-5E had anything comparable.

    in reply to: Mig-21bis vs F-5E/F #2676050
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    perhaps you could find some pics for our good friend “the hamburger man” πŸ˜€

    Camaro.

    Count me in too, I have been looking for pictures of Chilean Tigers packing Derby’s for a long while now. Thankfully the Chileans seem to be rather relaxed about people photographing their birds. Finding good pictures of Egyptian MiG-21’s and F-7s, just for example, is alot harder even though that airforce is alot bigger than Chile’s.

    in reply to: Mig-21bis vs F-5E/F #2676052
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    On the contrary actually. The US gave the Saigon goverment F-5A/B, F-5C and F-5E. Will find a photo if needed.

    Like this one? πŸ˜€ :diablo: πŸ˜€ According to the source page it is a captured ex-SVAF gone VPAF F-5E currently residing in a museum in Poland.

    http://vnaf.net/captured/pn_w0859.jpg

    in reply to: Small Airforces Pics Request #2677424
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    Myanmar again

    I don’t suppose you have any of their MiG-29s or F-7Ms? πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

    in reply to: Eurofighter names #2679502
    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    Hi all

    Just trying to understand…

    What are the correct name designations of the Eurofighter? I mean, I’ve heard, EF2000, Eurofighter T1, and even EF2000B! Or the correct name is simply Eurofighter?
    Which one is the correct name?

    Thanks

    It used to be called FEFA (Future European Fighter Aircraft) or the JF-90 but the latter title was dropped due to delays and became Eurofighter 2000 or EF-2000 for short. this according to the ec.aviation.military FAQ. Individual air forces will probably come up with their own designations. Some Americans also refer to it as EuroFlop and EuroFlubber, except when they are trying to squeeze money out of a tight fisted congress, then then it is sometimes elevated to the status of: “a threat to the US Military Aerospace industry”. πŸ˜€

    savage-rabbit
    Participant

    I think he means only country with a “stealth” plane in parts :dev2:

    To rephrase a favorite USAF joke. Wouldn’t that make Serbia “The biggest supplyer of F-117 stealthplane parts outside the USA”? πŸ˜€

Viewing 15 posts - 226 through 240 (of 306 total)