Please give the sfc of each engine. You know the pressure-ratio of both and the turbine inlet temperature of both. Otherwise delete that claim from your postings about fuel-consumption of WP-13F and R-25-300. About the last point I agree.

Even MiG-Mapo recommends replacing the R-25-300 during a MiG-21Bis upgrade with something more modern and fuel efficient. The R-25-300 is not seeing any significant development any more the Wopen-13 is. It would surprise me if the last 15 years or so of development had not resulted in the Wopen-13 enjoying least a small advantage in fuel consumption over the R-25-300. Even so you are right I made a guess which I cannot cite hard figures to prove since such data is classified for obvious reasons and I am not privileged with access to it. However, judging from the absoloute tone of that demand you made you must be able to cite hard figures from a respectable source to conclusively disprove what I said. Until you do my comment will remain unchanged. 😀 I am looking forward to seeing your data.

It can still carry a centerline tank, can’t it?

True but even with an 800liter tank it would be on short legs with an old and fuel hungry engine. Not that it really matters I still don’t see these aircraft being very likely to run into each other on the battlefield. The PAF seems to be planning to use the F-7PG in the point defense role much the same as the Vietnamese used the MiG-21 against the US. during the Indochina war, ie. for ambush/hit-and-run attacks on Indian strikers operating inside Pakistan and the MiG-21Bison with it’s limited endurance is not exactly the prime choice for escorting strikers deep into Pakistani territory is it? In fact I would be surprised if either air force regards the F-7 or MiG-21 as more than a stop gap to keep pilots current on an aircraft with reasonably modern electroincs, sensors and weapons pending delivery of something better.

By IAF MiG-21 are you implying the newst BISON upgraded jets? They’d have a distinct advantage being able to fire R-77 BVR AAMs.

At the risk of igniting a flame war:

The Bison will be on rather short legs carrying 2xR-73 and 2xR-77. If it carries extra tanks it will have to sacrifice either it’s WVR or the BWR capability. Basically the Bison has an edge at long range due to the R-77 but the F-7PG is more maneuverable with its double delta wing. Also the WP-13 is a newer engine than the R-25 and even if it is based on an old design and it supposedly benefits from modern technology to make it more fuel efficient so the F-7PG at least should have an edge as soon as the engagement degenerates into a dogfight. That aside this is a rather unikely comparisons. Both aircraft are point defense fighters designed to go after enemy strikers and should be fairly unlikely to run into each other. A more likely scenario would be Bisons vs. the PAF’s upgraded Mirages or F-7PG’s vs. say.. Indian Jaguars wouldn’t it? This is of course a gross oversimplification. There are many more factors in an airbattle than just sensor range, endurance, missile range and maneuverability

Chinese news has reported the J-7G going to the PLAAF’s August 1st aerial demonstration team. Supposedly this is the first picture of an August 1st J-7G posted on the Chinese language forums. Too hard to tell for sure from that angle. The J-7G should have a frameless windshield to differentiate it from the earlier J-7EB of the team.

It definetly has a wrap around windscreen. Compare it to this J-7EB closeup:

I suppose the most overrating I have ever seen a WWII fighter get was the P-51 when I came accross a claim that it could fight the Me-262 on equal terms which gave me a laugh, picking off jets on takeoff and landing when you have air supremacy is not equal terms. But mostly I get tired of people going on about how devastating the .50 cals were, sure they were good guns and they could handle German fighters well enough. However I’d like to see a P-51 take an aircraft of the B-17’s caliber apart with those guns quickly enough to have a reasonable chance of not getting blown to pieces by the 100+ B-17 gun turrets blaizing away at it. The Germans tried 15mm cannon early on during the attacks on the Reich and rated them as useless for anti bomber missions, it is no coincidence that the Me-262 had 4x30mm guns in the nose. Mind you the Me-262 has been overrated almost as much as the Mustang. The Spitfire has been elevated to the status of a divinity so it is high on my list simply because nothing is ever that perfect. The Zero is probably the most interesting since it was much more overrated during WWII than it is today.

(were these F-7’s or F-6’s? )

The SLAF does not operate the F-6 but it did operate the FT-5 until relatively recently but the last of them have probably been retired. There was an article in AFM mentioning that the SLAF had sent its small fleet of F-7BS fighters and sole FT-7 trainer for overhaul in Pakistan so I suppose it is them the article is referring to.

Imagine being a government who’s supported by the U.S. in one year, then condemned as the worst threat to world peace since Hitler in the next. The embargo follows and you’re soon left with a lot of worthless iron.

Don’t the Turks license build the F-16? AFAIK that includes the engines and at least a subset of the avionics. That should make the country more sanctions proof than most other customers for US hardware.

Both the U.S. and EU are capable of such behavior, but if I was in another country and had to choose between them on the risk of capricious decisions I’d pick the EU every time.

If the choice ever comes between the EU and the USA Turkey will pick the EU, if only because they have to live next to it. 😀 Another factor is that Turkey’s economic future is far more dependant on good relations with the EU than the USA.