pluto77189And if that happened to be a foreign soldier who invaded your country then I guess that would make you a terrorist too.
So, who are the good guys? The Iraqis that are fighting with the US, or the Iraqis(and their foreign friends) who are fighting to stop Iraq from becoming a democracy? Or is it the Iraqis and Iranians that want to see a theocratic dictatorship replace Saddam?
If it’s the Sunnis we’re fighting in Fellujia, then that means the majority of the Iraqi population are “bad guys”.
If it’s Sadr’s people, then the majority of Iraqis are theri enemies too.
If it’s the majority of Iraqis, and the people fighting under the Iraqi government who are in the right, then what of the US? They are fighting WITH us, not against us. So exactly who’s an invader, and who is defending, and who is helping who???
The way I see it now, the majority of Iraqis want the fighting to end, and peace to prevail. They do not want Saddam, or a saddam type leader, nor do they want an Iranian type theocracy. The people We are fighting are trying to disrupt the will of the iraqi people.
The majority of the people fought in fellujia are Saddam loyalists, baathists, and people that want to preserve things the way they were with Saddam. They are the people we wanted to kill/remove from power int he first place.
the other peopel there are foreigners, who wast simply to keep Iraq from becoming a democracy. IF it becomes a succesful democracy, it proves that America did soemthing good, and radical “islam” failed to prevent it. The fact that they tried to prevent such a thing from happening will severely damage any credibility terrorists have within th emuslim world. They fight with the Saddam loyalists because they have to. Success for the Iraqi people means success for America, and defeat for radical islam.
pluto77189So if I see someone laying injured in the road, having just been hit by a car, I have a perfectly good excuse to run that person over because I think they might be faking it?
Some people here could be faking signs of brain activity – Nermal
Are you at war, in a warzone, fighting against people that have demonstrated the tendency to fake being dead, only to blow themselves up killing marines? HAs one of your friends just been killed because he got too close to someone who was dead/faking death, but was really hiding an explosive?
If so, then yes, you have a perfectly good excuse to kill them. But don’t run them over, they might have a bomb, and you wouldn’t want to put th epassengers in yor car at risk.
But if you’re not at war, and not in a warzone where enemies play IED possum, then you have to be brain dead to even think the situations are comparable.
Thank God you people aren’t the ones fighting the war. We’d all be praying 5 times a day facing mecca if that were the case.
pluto77189B.S.? What do you think goes on in war? People get killed, plain and simple. One of my good friends returned from Iraq about 6 months ago. This situation happens all the time. they go on a patrol, and find dead bodies in areas where they(the marines) have not been. In other words, “dead” iraqis in areas where there should not have been dead anybody. After a few close calls, they started putting bullets into every suspicious dead body they came across. Too often, the dead bodies were rigged with explosives, or were simply holding a grenade, waiting for the right moment.
One time, an Iraqi stepped in front of their APC, holding an AK-47, yelling at them. They yelled in arabic for him to move, put down the gun, and get away. He didn’t. they killed him. Was he going to shoot them? or was he just so upset at something, he was ignoring them? We may never know. Aren’t you glad YOU didn’t have to make that choice?
In war, you don’t have the luxury of making decisions at your lesiure. you catch on very quickly, because the consequence isdeath. You see a seemengly wounded guy turn out to be a suicide bomber one time, you’re going to shoot the next guy yousee pretending to be dead.
In the video, the reporter tell him”these were wounded left from yesterday”. The marine says “I didn’t know, I din’t know”. He just thought the wounded insurgents were there on their own accord–very suspicious. IF he had known they were left by marines, as WE know, he might not have been so quick to shoot.
If my life, or the life of my family is even potentially at risk, I’m going to eliminate that risk. Someone breaks into my hose, and doesn’t run/drop/surrender when I tell them too, I’m killing them, without hesitation. Maybe they were going to try to steal a bit of jewels to pay for a can of baby formula, maybe they were going to rape and murder my wife. I’m not taking that chance.
And that’s not even in a warzone.
You can analyze all you want, but you can’t criticize his actions if you can’t understand the situation.
His friend might be alive had he shot the other guy in the head just a few days prior. As a result, this guy wold probably not be dead. Blame the terrorists.
pluto77189Funny how you go into the “talking down to the ignorant people” mode, “just because they are a different color” etc. assuming that that is the reason we do not cry when we see them killed.
This guy was fighting US troops. From a Mosque. He may not have been Iraqi. If he was, he was most likely a supporter of Saddam. That means he was willing to risk death to see that the Iraqi people do not see democracy. this guy was willing to risk death, desicrate a mosque, and kill, JUST to try to prevent Iraq from falling into the hands of the people of Iraq.
After all that, he deserves to be treated as a human. He was treated for his wounds(BY marines, the previous day), and not simply killed, which would have been easier.
He probably couldn’t have done anything else to keep that guy from killing him.
The Marine that ended up killing him was acting out of self defense. Personally, I think what he had witnessed had given him very good reason to shoot someone who he thought was faking death.
Was it right? probably not. Should there be an investigation? Of course.
Is there evidence that the marine acted improperly? Well, he shot a wouded guy, so sure, there is. Is there a valid reason he acted improperly? His friend was killed by a “wounded/dead” insurgent very recently, so I would have to say yes. He had a reason to act the way he did. If the wounded guy had a bomb/gun, then he would have been right. If he did not, he would have been wrong.
What I am trying to say is that when you are faced with the decision to kill or not kill, the potential outcome has to be weighed. He just saw a similar situtation result in the death of a close friend. At the very least, it is UNDERSTANDIBLE why he shot.
Had he known for a fact that the guy was left after a previous marine group passed through, he might have been less wary of a trap. Without that knowledge, a guy pretending to be dead is very suspicious, especially to someone who just witnessed what he did.
This will be investigated, and it should.
Everyone I know that has been in Iraq, or is in Iraq has reported the same story. The people just want to live. They want to be left alone. Most of the Shiite fighters were from Iran, most of the Sunni fighters were Saddam loyalists/Baathists or from other Arab countries. Even a large part of the Sunnis just want to get on with life.
the people fighting the US and Iraqis want to stop them from getting on with life.
They are killing not just US troops, but Iraqi civilians. For that, no, I don’t shed a tear when they die.
I felt bad for the Iraqi troops killed in the war, and for the civilioans killed. But I don’t feel bad about these terrorists being killed. If they’re going to kill civilians, or try to bring back Saddam’s ways…nope, they can die. Just liek the Nazis, they can all go away.
pluto77189If you’re in a war, and one of your buddies is blown up while checking out a supposedly dead body, you’re going to be very wary the next time you see someone FAKING being dead.
Just a day or two before this incedent, one of the marines friends was checking out a supposed;y dead body, and it exploded, killing him. Either it was booby trapped, or the guy had been faking it, and was merely wounded, waiting for the marines to get close before blowing himself up. Regardless, knowing this has JUST happend to this marine, can you not expect him to kill someone who is not deaD, BUT IS TRYING TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY ARE DEAD?!?!
If that happened to me, I’d kill anyoe I saw pretending to be dead. When it comes down to it, he had to make a decision in a fraction of a second. When faced with the current situtation(same situation before resulted in one dead friend), he acted to ensure he an dhis friends did not end up dead. It’s war, war is this ugly. Every time they are faced with the enemy, they have to make this decision to pull the trigger, and it’s never easy. With all the evidence, I think he did the right thing.
Embedded reporters have done good for the US, they showed the world how we conducted the war. considering that this reporter sent the video to the news and not the governemnt, and somehow Al Jezerra is now broadcasting this marines name and face on the airways…I have to say, that this reporter should be removed from the area. He’s going to get fragged if he isn’t.
pluto77189The way Pluto worked was pretty neat. IT was a nuclear ramjet. The reactor core was composed of hexagonal rods with a round hole in the middle held together in a tight bundle. These rods were composed of uranium, I believe, and would heat up to a very high temperature(as to be expected from a rector core).
Air passed through the intake, and was compressed. It then flowed through the reactor core(Hundreds of these rods). The incredible heat of the rods would impart remendous amounts of energy to the compressed air as it passed through, forcing it out the back with greater force than it entered.
for it to work(and it did), the air entering the intake had to be around mach 3, I believe. they had turbines feeding the static test engines.
The idea was to create a mach 3+ cruise missle, with nearly unlimited range. ICBM’s made this application unnecessary.
They final design was supposedly going to be something about the size and weight of a locomotive, traveling at mach 3, aroudn the world to deliver a nuke to the USSR.
Crazy part is that it would probably have worked.
pluto77189Evangelical christians. What the hell is that? How do they measure that? Is it someone who goes to church once a month, and believes in God?
they use that term because it suggests people that speak in tongues, interpret the bible word for word, and literally thump their bibles at everyone else.
I have known a few crazy people, both conservative southern baptists and liberal northern roman catholics. They are equally crazy.
It seems anyone not an atheist is called “evangelical”, it’s ridiculous.
I am a christian, I own guns, I’m getting my hunting liscense in a week and a half.
Big deal.
when I say you’re ignorant, it’s not that you’re stupid. You just are ignorant of the way things are in the US, the south in particular. Your way of life, and the values you hold dear, are simply different. Instead of trying to understand, you ridicule, with the belief that your”lifestyle/culture/etc is superior, and that as a result, you are more intelligent.
That’s why people from NY think they’re smarter than southerners, because they can’t see why someone would live “like that”.
Southerners think the same about them. they are ignorant to , or not exposed to the way of life outside of the city, otherwise, they’d get the hell out of the city, because it’s a horrioble way of life.
Personally, I can see why someone would live in a city–they just care about different things. Personal freedoms are different from one person to another. the ones I care about require property, open space, clean air, and distance between me and my neighbors. I can deal without the “convienence” of nearby stores.
For city dwellers, the closeness of everything is important, so much so, they see living outside of the city as something so unfathomable, it must have been involuntary. Involuntary because nobody would actually “choose” to live away from the convineces of a city. Therefore, they must be less intelligent, prosperous, productive,etc. If they were able to make it in a city, they surel;y woud be there.
People from cities are certainly NOT smarter than people from the country. There is simply a greater populatin density. In one square mile sin NY, you can have thousands of smart people, thousands of idiots. in one square mile around my parents house, you’ll hit a few houses of pretty smart people, a couple of low lifes with near-retarded level IQ’s(they’re from Upstate NY, by the way), and well…some cows.
Cities do not attract “smart” people, they simply attract PEOPLE.
pluto77189The Jews and Arabs all lived there at one point in history, and both know that they are God’s chosen people. Saying the Jews are God’s chosen people, or that the palestinians were there first…it’s all a moot point.
Regardless of what Yaweh/Allah said to who, these people must have a state. Both of them. the palestinians will have a state, and so will Isreal. The Isrealis that oppose it should be bulldozed into the same collective pit as the palestinians who oppose the existance of Isreal. After that, the other people can live in peace.
Ignoring Arafat’s murderous past, he has still been an obstacle to peace. The majority of Both Jews and Palestinians want a peaceful coexistance, with two states. some Isrealies oppose, but they are NOT in power.
The problem with Arafat, is that he opposed Isreal’s existance, and HE was in power.
Kinda hard to negotiate around that.
Clinton took a huge chance inviting him to the white house, and really tried to do a good thing. I do not like the man, but you have to give him credit for TRYING as hard as he did. When Arafat turned down the deal he was given, he should have been shot dead.
There was simply no compromise he was willing to make.
I always felt his “Cause” was just–trying to bring freedom to the palestinians. Who wouldn’t agree with that? Until the suicide bombings, I always felt the palestinians had the moral high ground. When you take the road of targeting innocent woman and children, you lose any capital you had.
Hell, even if they were “just” attacking military targets, they might have saved face. That is at the very least, understandable.
Nothing justifies the intentional targeting and killing of civilians. Because of that, Arafat was an evil man. Because he did nothing to stop it, and would not take a compromise, he was Palestine’s number one enemy.
pluto77189The Blue states could never ceced like the South did in the Civil War. Especially now.
If you took out the US military(which is MOSTLY in the South, and mostly composed of Southerners), and left the citizens to fight it out, the “red” states would overpower the “Blue” ones in no time.
The Majority of gun owners are conservative. The majority of them are in the Red states. The majority of gun owners in the blue states are conservative.
How are they going to cecede when they have no guns? Hehe. Wish they kept them, huh?
I encourage all liberals who are distraught over this, to move to canada. It’s not a bad place, and they’ll be allright. If they want left wing government, let them have their taste of socialism outside of the US, because I don’t want it here.
conversly, I welcome all Canadians who wish to move here to do so. If you dont like it there, come on in.
Maybe our liberals will join forces with Canada’s liberals, and they can make it an even “better” place. Surely they can “do” more there than over here.
pluto77189None of this was kept quite. It was all over the news. It just didn’t last long. The final tests that confirmed it WAS sarin were pretty much ignored by the news.
they don’t consider it a stockpile, so it wasn’t “what we were looking for”. Because it may have been an older store that Saddam lost track of, I guess the press gave the butcher of bagdhad the benifit of the doubt–“well, there weren’t many, he PROBABLY didn’t know he had them, and WOULD have destroyed them if he found them…”
It is a fact that chemical weapons(not JUST the chemicals, these were weapons, ready to go)were found in Iraq, however.
pluto77189Ok, WMD’s. Months back, some insurgents used a binary gas shell as an IED(bomb). The components were designed to be mixed by the spin imparted on the round after being fired from an artillery piece. IT was a 155mm round. the result of the mixing wassarin gas.
Because it was not fired, but simply detonated, mixing was minimal. The amount of Sarin produced was fairly small, though some troops needed to be treated for exposure to sarin(though not a lethal does).
In total, last I heard, 10-12 of these binary sarin filled shells were found.
Also, some mustard gas shells were also found, and I believe one was also used in a similar(incorrect) manner to the sarin filled round.
The use of such a round as a roadside bomb demonstrates that either:
1 the insurgents didn’t know how it worked
2 didn’t know what it was
3 knew what ot was, but were ignorant of it’s operation.
They probably just found it, and thought it was another HE155mm shell.
Not in huge quantities, nope, but WMD’s were found in Iraq, and they were used against us by insurgents after the “War”.
pluto77189I don’t hate mormons, I just resent the religion for what was done in its name to my wife’s family. It was my brother in law. He was converted by a girl in HS. She and her family instilled in him the idea that he was “special” , and his parents and family “were unable” to really understand why, because they weren;’t mormons. Soon, he was telling his father that he was a bad parent, because of his beliefs. He told them that after they’re all dead, he would visit them from time to time, coming “down” from his higher level of heaven.
I like the guy, and his wife. I have no problems with the mormon church in that it seems righ tfor the mormons. When they activly try to convert, it’s fine too. But when they use divicive means, separating a youth from his family, alienating him, taking advantage of adolecent impulses and naivete(sp?) in an effort to drive a wedge between a family in order to convert, I resent it.
That’s why the south park episode is so good. I makes fun, but levels out in the end. It works for them, so leave them be! To behonest, seeing that episode made me more comfortable with the fact that my niece and nephew were being raised mormon. I have always been very bothere dby that. That show put it in perspective, and I feel better now. Funny, huh?
pluto77189funny, An Ent. Weekly article quotes the bungie lead story writer as saying the story could be seen as a critique of the bush admin’s policy in the mideast…”
He had to reply himself on a site saying they edited out the other stuff he said: “but you’d be wrong”.
He was showing how people look to far into stories, and try to come up with something that isn’t there.
Pretty funny. Had lots of people really ****ed at MS and bungie for a while.
pluto77189Impossible. In stealth mode, only 6 AIM-120C are carried. Any more and you mount them underwing and loose stealthiness. So, it can kill off 6 FLANKERs, but not 8, before having to get within visual range.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Yup yup…math error.
I meant 6.
I added the sidewinders accidently…
Although, newer variants of the Aim-9X will have BVR capibility. Though not as much as the Aim-120 of, but definatly beyond visual range.
pluto77189WMD’s were used against us, after the invasion, by insurgents.
What about the golden tablets?…Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb…
(South park mormon reference, priceless because a friend of mine was “converted” to that devicive cult, and alienated his family)
there are some fundamentalist peole in every religion/region. I know catholics in the NE that have doused their kids rooms with holy water in an effort to purify it against “Evil” they thought their kid was becoming involved in. They quote: We don’t believe in that stuff(the cultish rock music the kid was listening to), we’re catholic. So I sprinkled the room with holy water.” They vote Blue.
I know some people down here that believe every word in the bible word for word–even the ones that contradict each other. they are kooks. Everyone else knows it. They are the minority, a very small minority.
Morality is one thing, religion is another. I want a president that uses his morals as a guide, not his religion, and certainly not one that uses NEITHER.
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