Originally posted by glitter
Really ?

I don’t speak of local officals who asked to make come back all american soldiers buried in france.

Local officials? You have any idea how many “LOCAL OffICIALS” there are in this country? You see a news report of some off-hand remark and you think that it;’s relavant?
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How naïve.
And don’t you think that lies such like
“France helped Saddam hussein to escape”
“France gave weapons during GW2”
and so on haven’t push people to think in a particular way ?

We have people in this country that believe they’re going to be a GOD when they die. there’s people that think Elvis is still alive. there’s people that were SO messed up as a child they worship HITLER! And you’re surprised some idiots think of saying something like that?!?!
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Funny, you see a few examples of people saying something totally unfounded, and you take that as evidence of the government’s crusade against France. And you think I AM naive?

We see video of people burning the American flag, mutilating our people, and openly wishing to kill all americans, as it is the duty “of all muslims”. We seem to have the common sense to not ascribe this behavior to all muslims.
………………………………..

but you seem to don’t know the own strategy of your country.
Sad.

You see me, as well as other Americans, as ignorant, and unable to “see the truth”, that you, the “enlightened” people, see so clearly. That comes across as quite the elitist statement.

When Americans see Germany elect their leader based on his strong views against our Country’s stance, we take offense.
When Americans see the graves of their relatives defaced, by the people they died trying to save from Nazi occupation, we take offense.

All of these “crusades” undertaken, such as the “boycott’ of french products, were started at the grassroots level. People spoke out, people listened. Buisnesses took part, their customers followed.
Of course, you feel we americans are unabl;e to actually see that we ARE being manipulated, by george bush himself, and are but puppets at the hands of our government.

What is Sad, is that you are spouting all this stuff, as if you are immune to the “brainwashing” that you assume I am recieving at the hands of our government, when you, in effect, are clearly spouting views that have been instilled onto you by others, or, by the careful mainpulation of your media/government.

Or, you could be simply a US college professor/graduate student…hehe
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Sound more plausible that they were frnch people than russian.

Well, have you seen the pictures of what actually happened?
The writing was IN French.

And could you tell me, if Mr bush had wanted to do that, waht mecanism could have prevent him ??

HAd wanted to manipulate the media? How? by having the media only broadcast what he wanted? By forcing the media to portray France and Germany as our enemies?

Couldn’t happen. The Media, for the most part, slants left, and usually portrays the president in a negative light. right wing media, mostly radio, is much more conservative than Bush, and is against Bush in all but a few issues, Tax Cuts and national security. Those two issues trump all others, so they support him, as far as his reelection, but bush’s BIGGEST critics are those who support him. They criticize his every move, because they wish him to change certain things. The left, simply makes fun of EVERYTHING he does, because they want to see him fail.

Bush could put out ads, or have some of his supporters in media(murdoch) plant propaganda. However, there would be to great a backlash for both parties. Murdoch’s foxnews has it’s share of bush supporters. they also criticize him.
The News media runs Bush’s election ads, but they run ALL election ads.
The Democrats have even started a liberal left wing radio station to try to compete with the right wing radio. The Sad truth is that it needed THE DEMOCRATS help to get going, while conservative radio is succeding on its own, as a private, highly profitable venture by individual radio hosts, local and nationwide.

It seems that much of the world overestimates the president’s power and influence on the people of the US.

Ask yourself, “Do I think I’m SMARTER than Americans?”
“Do I think I have a better understanding of the world than Americans?”
“Am I more COMPASSIONATE than Americans”
“Is the US government brainwashing its people, while MY government does nothing of the sort?”
“Am I morally superior to americans, because I chose peace over war?”

Originally posted by aCiDHg
i’m sorry but that is just abit unworldly of u. china ain’t what it used to be in the mao days where ppl sleep w/ the little red books under their pillow. i was there last yr (shanghai) & it felt more western & cosmopilitan than tokyo or seoul. (pollution & traffic abit bad tho) guess there is still legacies of communism in bureacracy but u can practically do more than u can do in the states & get away w/ it. booze all nite, good clubs, women, entertainment & stimulations. feel quite safe & free 2 me. lotz more westerners than 1 would think 2 (including yanks)…. but especially euros(which i don’t think the average chinese can tell apart from yanks)…. lotz of french & german “foreign experts” infact… & don’t ask which fields…. please open ur mind abit & experience a place before u pass judgement from what u learn off biased & special interest sources.

i personally would like to see f22 fly but what top of the line migs & sukois are even in the pipeline? russian aviation is basically in tatters after yrs of neglect & lack of funding after the fall of USSR. mig won’t be here long if current trend continues.

Well, I have seen many undercover news stories in China, with hidden cameras. the Chinese government went through incredible lenghts to mislead the news agency on human rights issues. It was very interesting.
I know things are not quite so bad, as far as foreigners are concerned, surely the Chinese want to encourage buisnessess from around the world to come to china.

It’s not the human rights thing that bothered me, it was the way the newspeople were followed, mislead, and intimidated by chinese officials. I’m no fan of reporters, but this was not a huge news company, it was a youth news channel, that had some really risky methods of getting footage.
I shold have rephrased my statement. It should have read” until I feel comfortable gong there. Which currently, I don’t.

China and India are fielding Su-30’s/Su-3X’s. India has flown against US F-15’s recently–less than two months ago–and supposedly, when within visual range, the Sukoi’s totally outclassed the eagles.

Originally posted by skythe
Palestinian terrorism should be condemned not only because it is wrong, not because it’s totally counterproductive, a failed policy which had done nothing for the Palestinian cause, but first and foremost because it is totally unnecessary! For all we care, they can have one tommorow, if only they realise we are here to stay, not on their terms, but on terms agreed upon by both parties.
Let’s just take a look at some of the Israelis on this forum : Me, JJ, Barak, Erez, to name a few. Have any of us ever expressed a refusal to accept a Palestinian state? Have we rejected their right to one? No, we havn’t. What the Palestinians are doing is nothing short of sheer stupidity, and those who wish to see an indepedent Palestinian state should be the first to see this!

I have always supported them in the formation of a state, giving them favor over Isreal, since they were “nationless”

The palestinian majority probably WOULD LIKE an adjacent state.
There seems to be a minority that opposes this,and vies for the all or nothing approach. These groups, like Hamas, al-oksa, etc., unless they change their stance, are dead-enders.

I think the recent incidents of young teenagers being recruited are a good sign that the terrorists are desparate–they had to bribe a kid and give him big promises fo 70 virgins to get him to kill himself, and be USED as an example of the “willingness” of palestinian youth to die for the cause.

The reason we make a big deal about Aram suicide bombings, and not Jewish bombings, is because of the same reasons we don’t make a big deal about JApanese kamikaze bombings–the Arabs are doing it now, targeting innocent people, in the name of God.

Like in fellujia–you see video of a bunch of people, desicrating a bunch of dead bodies, yelling “god is great.” furthermore, the dead bodies were retired US soilders, employed by a NC security company, hired by the government to oversee security on food shpments into the fellujia area. Ironic.

Originally posted by glitter

Consistent ?
And what about that he has spoke for years of “War of terror” but launched a crusade against France, a top leader in the struggle vs terrorism ?
I don’t speak of the fact that his “war” is a joke.

F-22 or JSF ?

Launched a crusade against France? Where, in all the nine hells, did you come up with bush launching a Crusade against FRANCE?
There WAS a backlash against France, for not supporting us, but nothing “Launched” by any US official. People decided they didn’t want to buy French goods, go to France, or be affiliated with French things! Quite a bit of it was a joke–a famous incident in wilmington, NC, where a diner named “Cubby’S” changed the name of it’s fried potatoes to “freedom Fries” from “french Fries”–it’s along a major US highway, and word spread–it was funny.

IF you think Bush was behind it, you’re way ignorant of American society–WE are in control, and WE decide what we want, not the president, not Congress, nobody but ourselves.
The AMerican people decided they were ticked off at anti Americanisim throughout Europe, specifically our alies, and acted accordingly.

How do you think WE felt seeing the memorial to our WWII dead –WHO DIED at Normandy to SAVE France– desicrated by French people?????

****ed off enough to stop buying French wine and cheese.

Just like the dixie Chicks. They said something that ticked off the majority of their fans(most country music fans are southerners, most southerners are conservatives, and most conservatives like country music), and they paid a price in record sales. Not enough to kill their careers. but enough to drastically reduce record sales and limit their radio airtime. Radio companies got TONS of calls saying they didn’t want to hear the dixie chicks, so , they stopped playing them, because that’s what the listeners wanted.

Again, all due to the free will of american people, expressing themselves to buisnesses, who acted accordingly.

Any thought that it was “orchestrated” by Bush or the white house is a GROSS overestimation of the powers and influence of the US government on its people.

I think ANY big military project is in danger if Kerry is elected. TheF-22 is here, but the JSF has a potentially huge overseas market, and could be saved by Britain, and other export sales.

Originally posted by Haleyoneshoemak
http://mil.qianlong.com/4919/2004/04/01/228@1976234.htm

Ok, I have NO idea what’s going on on that site, except that whatever it is, it’s probably better than the F-15.

Originally posted by SOC
Oh please, the original suicide bombers over there were the Zionist terrorists killing people when the area was still under British administration. Saying the Palestinians lost credibility for adopting a Zionist tactic, which seemed to have worked by the way, is ludicrous.

No it’s not. The tactic of blowing yourself up to kill innocent people, in order to bring about a result, is disgusting. I don’t care if it works(Madrid) or not(9-11), it’s still a tactic which, when used, causes me to lose sympathy for an otherwise “just” cause.

Now, if the Palestinians were bombing the Isreali military, and security, and making an EFFORT to avoid civilian targets, then I would consider them VALID tactics. I MAY not agree with them, but the people would not lose my sympathy.

I consider that gurillia warfare-no biggie. Once they start targeting civilians, it’s terrorisim, and credibility is out the window.

And, correct me if I’m wrong, but the current trend towards suicide bombing oneself in a civilian area was introduced by SE Asians in Lebanese training camps in the 70’s. From what I remember, “kamakazi” tactics, admired in communits Asian states was the influence. While it was an Asian tactic in warfare, it became known as an Islamist tactic through it’s use in the middle East.

Originally posted by m.ileduets
That’s the way to go. We can certainly learn from eachother, compromise on some issues, cooperate.
This will be far more profitable than returning to a cold war- like relationship. If the US wants to produce the F-22 and spend all that money on it, go ahead, but spare the world from another arms race by legitimizing it with a alleged “Chinese threat”.

I don’t think we really have to worry about war with China. It’s kind of like Saudi Arabia. The country feeds most of the radical wahabbi terrorists, most of the guys in the planes on 9-11 were saudi, they continue to allow terrorisim–more so that probably all the other nations COMBINED–yet were still are buddy-buddy witth them.

simply because the economic catastrophe resulting from a cessation of trade with them is not something we could really deal with right now. So we bite the bullet and let them get away with it.

China certainly doesn’t have a religious HATRED for us, just possibly some resentment here and there, for various reasons.
But our economic dealings with China are so great, they could probably NUKE LA, and we’d still be trading with them.

So much of the world market depends on China, I don’t think ANYONE would be stupid enough to mess that up. The Chinese government wants to expand not by grabbing territory, but by expanding their market? Fine, it’s probably going to happen. If anything, it will lead to competition in the world market.

There are MANY people that are against free trade–both democrats and republicans. They want to keep US jobs in the US, and away from China. Sure, it sounds like a nice idea. A HUGE textile company in NC, pillotex, closed shop, to open up a shop i mexico. Everyone and their grandmother wants to stop that happening–it’s so stupid. If the company DIDN’t Got to mexico,then they wouldn’t be able to afford to pay workers, and they would go out of buisness. At least now, the company still exists.

An even better example: a logitech wireless mouse costs about $80. People are not going to pay much more than that for a mouse. Logitech pays about $50 to make, market, and distrubute the product. Of this, $40 is marketing, and $7 is manufacturing. It costs them, on average$7 to have this product put together in China and shipped back here. People in the US complain, that the company is making such a profit, since they’re paying chinese workers “only” the equvilent of $7 a unit.
They should bring the work to the US, so they are not”exploiting” foreign workers, and the money can stay in the US.

All kinda of people–Kerry included–want to bring these jobs here. It’s totally ignorant.

If the things were made in the US, the manufacturing costs ALONE would cause the unit to be SO expensive, they couldn’t hope to sell it. So, instead of american technicians getting paid to MAKE the things, Chinese workers get paid, and American marketing experts get paid to sell it.
Without free-Trade, US consumers get NO affordable wireless mouse, and Logitech loses all it’s jobs.
With free-trade, US consumers get an affordable mouse, US marketing experts get a job, the company continues to be able to compete, all at the “expense” of relocating the assebly division to China, where people THERE get to work as well.

Sure, some aspects of free-trade need to be “fixed”, but it IS the future. China definatly holds a HUGE chunk of it too…

Ok, you guys will have to forgive me, I get hopped up on coffee when I’m just starting work, so I write the HUGE posts all the time in the morning–I do this in ALL my morning emails and posts…

Well, we’re using new Russian aircraft, radar and Sam’s to justify the F-22, so why not china, they’re building them too?

As far as some people are concerned, anything that gets the idea that “we need the F-22” into the minds of Congress is worth it.

If US / China relations could imporve, to the point where Us citizens could go to China and not feel “nervous,” then I’ll be happy.
Kinda like Iraq. I’ll judge success by how soon I’ll be able to go and >safely< see the Ishtar Gate for vacation!

I think that IF things DO work out, then the region will become much more stable–and “friendly” to the West.

As far as US policy on Isreal…it turns my stomach–both ways.
I firmly believe Isreal has a right to exist. I also firmly believe that the Palistinians have, at the VERY LEAST, a right to their own nation. I have wished things could be “wroked out” between them, for years. But it seems that a minority of people–on both sides–ruin it for everyone. You get Isrealis continuing to colonize more land, and palistinians killing innocent civilians. Then isreal retaliats, then they do anothe rbus bomb, repeat.

It’s gotten to the point where you almost can’t tell who was retaliating for what!

For YEARS I have always felt that while Isreal MUST exist, the palestinians(as a group) DID have the moral high ground, and were the one’s who should get the better end of the “deal”.

For me, once the palestinians started suicide bombings, regularly, it ruined it for them. Now, they were intentionally killling innocents–with the intention of killing, innocents. That brought them down a notch in my book.

I still want the same “deal”, where the palestinians get what they deserve, but, I think the suicide bombings, HAmas, al oksa martyrs brigade,etc. hurt them. Arafat, by not stopping them, hurts the palestinian cause.

If the palestinians STOPPED allowing suicide bombings, and stopped thge support of these terrorist groups, i’d support them 100% in their cause to get a State, with Isreali concessions.

If they KEEP supporting terrorists, hwo could I expect Isreal to captiulate with terrorists? Especially, since most of these terror groups don’t WANT a palestinian state,they want it ALL. And that isnt’ going to happen.

With Saddam out of power, I hope we’ll see our support of Isreal start to “change”–they REALLY do not need us anymore. If they needed us at all, it was becasue of the threat of possible attack by saddam, which would lead to OTHER arab nations attacking Isreal…but that WASN’t going to happen, and it DEFINATLY CAN’T happen now, so we should be more neutral in our support, except on terrorisim, not neutral on that.
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On to the election…
Someone mentioned the potential impacts of Kerry in office.
THAT worries me. He initially voted FOR the WAR, then when he began to show interst in running for pres., he flipped, and starting being critical, because HE was;t getting votes from War supporters–Bush war.

Kerry ‘s ONLY hope was to appeal to Liberal, left-wingers, who are anti-war, pro-abortion, anti military, pro-UN control, and anti-tax-cut.
Coincedently, although agreeing with Bush on SEVERAL issues within the past decade(He spoke out in 98, saying that the US MUST get rid of Saddam), he has not flipped, so he can get elected. Bush, like him, hate him, disagree with him, is almost PERFECTLY consistent. He doesn’t get into the political slight of hand that made ClintonFamous.

With Bush, the world will KNOW that the Us will follow through on the war on terror, Iraq will not be abandoned(like Afghanistan was after russia was out), and the military will not suffer unnecessary cuts.

With Kerry, we really don’t know WHAT ‘s going to happen in Iraq, or the rest of the world. It might be like Somalia, if something goes bad(like in Fellujia), he’ll get worried, and pull out–like Clinton did in somalia, or the UN did in Baghdad.

the F-22 is in serious danger if Kerry is elected. Kerry has been consistent in just 2 things–tax increases, and defense cuts. He voted to KILL the F-15, the B-1, the B-2, the patriot missles, and many many more I cannot remember.
I fear he’ll kill some projects we need, and it’ll come back to haunt us.
If, the F-22 and F-35 are cut, in 15 years we’ll be flying against top of the line Migs and sukoi’s and their Indian/Chinese equivalents–with near FIFTY YEAR OLD designs!

Bush’s administration is not easy on defense contracts–they cut the Crusader(oh, god what a BAD name for current conditions), and the comanche–the Army’s main “big” projects in development. Although they ARE focusing a bit more on the more practicle thigs now, like replacing the M-16…