India to load up on Russian arms?
yup. they are doing something big in Kashmir right now, and are expecting some major violence.
“Reverse engineered” does not really apply when you are developer and builder of the plane… those were Soviet projects involving a number of companies and scientific institutions, most of which are now located in Russia.
okay thats a fair point. but anyways yes, it looks more or less like a localized An-124 of their own.
[USER=”77107″]J-20[/USER] – That is an option. I don’t know why I didn’t think of that one. The Russians have their “Slon” concept, but it is still early enough that Chinese participation in its design and build can be scoped in. And a transport isn’t the same sort of potential threat that a fighter or bomber is.
Without an actual defense alliance though, the opportunities for joint projects will be limited. Such programs would have to offer plenty for the design and manufacturing industries of both nations while simultaneously avoiding potential security problems.
Shlong concept! I looked at it and it looked almost exactly like the An-124. would not be surprised its a reversed engineered one with newer engines
I’m sure Russia has the platforms and engines it needs. I’m pointing out China is fine without a Il-96 tanker. Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.
I think what Harrvey is trying to say.. Russia don’t need no friends!! just like Harvey!
Why? They have their own smaller Dark Sword … and it is flying since years. IMO drones are something, where Russia is surely – at least operationally ahead.
nur surely you won’t agree.
nur sultan?
anyways as you know Dark Sword seems to fill a different class and design than our sexy Russian counter part
its like a J-20 and J-31. just looking at the size, wing lay out, overall shape. they probably could go together, not against.
your China can surely export Dark Sword to Russia as well!
Umm all of a sudden, a change of goal post..
You just claimed the Y-20 was better vs a Il-476, NOT if its good enough for PLAAF.
See what you did there..
you saying the Chinese cant make equal or better transports than the Russians????
congratulations :applause:
cool beans. Def need to export to PLAAF!
Didn’t the Chinese get technical help from Ukraine or Russia in the development of the Y-20?
If the Chinese didn’t need to create a foreign partnership to create the Y-20 they certainly won’t need to form a foreign partnership to create a bigger version of such a transport aircraft.
you’re right sexy stud.
China milked the teeets of Ukraine cash cow.. but now it’s dry. not sure Antonov can offer anything more.
Also Y-20 is still lacking in engine.
Modern body but hampered by last gen engines.
Russia is probably the only one who can save China’s heavies
You need to google Russian State procurment program for Il-476(find the hard numbers) and upgrades on existing Il-76 fleet Hottie. Then check back to us from your current fantasy world.
For the trillient time, Russia has the mid-size transport covered for now and medium future.
you need to check the title of this thread Harvy. its called Russo-Chinese collaboration.
its at least a realistic fantasy. unlike adding a su-57 fuselage to a Su-35 ROFLMAO
Just how many new Tanker does VKS need, over the current Il-78 ones based on 476 prospect..?
People are beating the same dead horse here.
VKS need other stuff, like the smaller new Cargo transport obviously. Then Russia needs to figure out how to manage their Heavy An-124 fleet with new engines. The mid-size transport is no problem.
its okay baby cakes. everyone here got you.
we all agreed Y-20 with new sexy Russian engines is the way to go.
Russia-Sino consortium will also go for an An-124 replacement program too
^ wow, how many countries have this silly inter service bickering. I thought it was just the US and UK
accurate artist lay out of the BAC Tempesto
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”DiO_4rLV4AAyKeE.jpg”,”data-attachmentid”:3869763}[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”66110214_437461237095413_2032662346720384033_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com.jpg”,”data-attachmentid”:3869764}[/ATTACH]
here is an accurate artist conception of FCAS in Uber alles Deutscheland colors
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”D9RTtN_U0AEYNsf?format=jpg&name=medium.jpg”,”data-attachmentid”:3869666}[/ATTACH]
and one more from its Italian partner. Linguine
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”D9bk-ncU0AIL-2H?format=jpg&name=medium.jpg”,”data-attachmentid”:3869667}[/ATTACH]
Sorry wrong country. I meant Germany
Both sides are striving for independence in military matters, Russia to maintain theirs and China to gain it. As others have pointed out this rather limits the potential scope, more so for some decisions taken on the Russian side over the past 10 or 20 years.
For example, airframe-wise the clean-sheet Y-20 is a much better stab at a modern medium jet transport than the re-engined Il-76 but is hamstrung by its outdated engines. A joint design with Russia contributing PS-90A engines (which are much more competitive and would take a lot of pressure out of the WS-20 schedule), support in airframe design such as a more advanced flap system and a MAWS/DIRCM suite would have been a good deal for both sides. From Russia’s point of view buying Ukraine out of the An-70 and An-124 in a similar manner to how they now cut Uzbekistan out of Il-76 production could have been even better, but would probably have been very difficult to achieve diplomatically.
For the tanker role the CR929 is a prospect, but a rather distant one. It won’t fly until 2025ish at the earliest with civilian EIS in 2027 or later, a tanker conversion programme is complicated by the carbon fibre wings and Western equipment that is not scheduled to be replaced until later. It is difficult to envisage such a tanker becoming available in numbers before 15 years from now, so both sides need another solution to bridge this considerable gap and the Il-96 fits the bill perfectly. As wilhelm notes, while it is not competitive as an airliner (never was, like the MD-11 which has comparable capabilities), neither is the 767 nowadays and it still makes a decent refueling platform. In fact, such a tanker might already be a reality but for the stupid decision-making on the Il-76 explained above – compared to the An-70, the Il-76 looked so bad that it took commonality with tanker and AEW fleet to make a half-decent argument for it, leaving Russia with inferior solutions for all tasks.
The situation is similar for AWACS, but Russia having failed to adopt the Il-96 in the mid-2000s for the same reasons why it did not become the basis for a tanker, it is now too big really. A good AEW system can be hosted on a smaller, cheaper narrow-body today and still deliver good endurance, making the Tu-214 the prime candidate (apparently migrating the A-100 to that platform from the Il-76 is under consideration). With the C919 and MS-21 similar issues to the CR929 arise, and a MPA is subject to the same size considerations as AEW.
Outside aerospace, I think a somewhat shortened derivative (say, 37000t?) of the PLAN’s new Type 901 replenishment ship would be a good fit for the Russian Northern & Pacific Fleets (for the Baltic and Black, that new 14000t oiler Russia recently built is probably adequate).
Oh, and as far as JSR is concerned: Ignore List, Deino! Trust me, it helps.
you’re the most normal reply so far as Deino and JSR are on the same side.
so from all the intelligent replies here
joint Communist force would benefit the most from:
Y-20 but with Russian engines
AWACS based on MS-21 using a balance beam
MPA based on MS-21
larger tanker and AWACS based on C919 whenever it arises
until then Il-96M
J-31 for carrier ops on both sides, but needs new Russian engines
New Russian Shpurm Carrier for both
Chinese catapult on Shpurm Carrier
joint project for An-24 replacement
Nice planform for a start. If the size was larger, wing started at the nose, bury the inlets, lose the tails and add thrust vectoring, it would better match future requirements for combat load/radius and speed/altitude.
oh.. hallo!
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”t0107b23605c46b1c91.jpg?itok=2xJv36Ze.jpg”,”data-attachmentid”:3869746}[/ATTACH]