Personally I think its the points certainly the simplest to fix first but I dont have any info on how to set them ie what gap and what position before TDC.

Thanks for all the advise all just need a bit more to hopefully solve this problem, does anyone have a Meteor manual?

While I don’t have a Meteor manual I’ve got a (shortened) reprinted manual for a Cromwell tank. An older Meteor engine probably but the following should hold for your engine:

Contact breaker gap – 0.012”

Magneto timing (no advance):

– Inlet 5° before TDC
– Exhaust 10° before TDC

Interesting that the two magnetos fire the plugs at different times. It also lists the ‘nominal governor speed’ as 2550 RPM; the maximum RPM when the ‘rev-limiters’ (on the rotor arms) cut in. With a difference of only 2000 RPM between idle and flat-out I wouldn’t have thought that a timing issue would stop the engine from revving-up, especially at such light engine loads.

I dont think its fuel starvation the plugs were soaked when i took them out and its blowing big flames when it is missfiring, the carb has plenty of juice in it.

Yes, the float chamber can be full but if a ‘power’ (as opposed to an idle) jet is blocked you can still get a very weak mixture when you open the throttle.

The duplication of the ignition system makes me think it is unlikely to be the cause of it not revving-up, you could have a few plugs or leads that are poor but I don’t think that would produce the problems that you have.

Have’nt been able to find it myself as yet however…

It is an addition to their earlier ‘apology’:

“Vulcan Permit renewal Update
Monday, July 06, 2009 –

Following the announcement on Saturday that Vulcan XH558 would be unable to display at the RAF Waddington Airshow last weekend due to issues with the renewal of the aircraft’s annual Permit to Fly, the Vulcan to the Sky Trust (VTST) is doing all it can to ensure that XH558 returns to flight as soon as possible.

Robert Pleming, VTST Chief Executive: “On behalf of the Vulcan to the Sky Trust, I would like to apologise unreservedly for the huge disappointment felt by very many people, some of whom had traveled great distances, at the absence of the Vulcan from the flying display. The events leading to the cancellation of the Vulcan’s displays are deeply regrettable, and we will do everything we can to prevent this happening again at Waddington.”

Vulcan XH558 flies as a civilian aircraft, registration G-VLCN, under Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) regulations governing the operation of ex-military aircraft. The approved Engineering Authority for XH558 is Marshall of Cambridge Aerospace, which is responsible for all aspects of its airworthiness, including the application for the renewal of the Permit to Fly, due on 3rd July.

Following the success of the Pledge campaign in March, VTST contracted with Marshall Aerospace (MA) for the work needed to renew the aircraft’s Permit, including the annual service, and the test flight. However, during the original Major Service, a number of structural inspections were deferred and it was agreed to carry these out on BAE Systems-owned Vulcan XM603 at Woodford. The CAA required these inspections to be completed by the time of renewal of the Permit.

It has not proved possible to carry out these inspections and following a meeting with CAA, MA agreed to prepare a justification for a further extension to the inspections. In the week prior to the expiry of the existing permit, MA remained confident that the Permit revalidation would be obtained in time, to the extent that a joint decision was made to launch XH558 from RAF Brize Norton on Thursday 2nd July to fly to RAF Waddington for the Airshow Press Preview.

Unfortunately, on Friday 3rd July, MA were informed by the CAA that the justification for deferring the inspections was inadequate and that the CAA would require a much more detailed explanation before the Permit would be renewed. This report would also need to be underwritten by BAE Systems. (This report does not need to contain the results of the inspections, only the reasons for them, how they would be carried out or alternatively mitigated. There is no question that XH558 is in any way structurally unsafe.)

The level of detail required by CAA and the need for endorsement by BAE Systems meant that this could not be provided without significant additional work. Despite discussions between MA, the CAA and BAE Systems that ran on late into Friday evening and the following morning, there was no mechanism found that could have allowed the Vulcan to display legally over the weekend. Since then, MA have had a team working to generate and gain approval of the required report, ready for review by BAE Systems and submission to the CAA.

VTST does not yet have a firm date from CAA on when the Vulcan will be allowed to fly again, but it has been led to believe that the delay will be days rather than any longer.

XH558 remains fully serviceable at RAF Waddington.

A further update will be issued when more is known.”

Edit – Actually, having just checked, it was in the original press release posted here:

From the website:

Vulcan Permit renewal Update
Monday, July 06, 2009…

…unless VTST and the CAA agree otherwise (which I think might be sensible), the PtoF renewal will always fall due immediately before the Waddington show.

I doubt if they could apply for renewal until the annual service had been completed successfully, which was only a couple of weeks before the expiry.

I’m sure almost everybody else thinks that might be sensible too! :diablo:

Isn’t the problem here one of finance; if the Permit-to-Fly was dependant on the ‘winter service’ and that service was dependant on raising funds with the £1Million campaign that succeeded in March, so everything was pushed back up against the 3rd July deadline?

After some searching I eventually found the following from the VTST website:

“Vulcan Programme Update
March 24th 2009

Now that cash is being received by the Trust from the redemption of supporters’ pledges – for which very many thanks once again – the VTST management team met with directors of Marshall Aerospace earlier this week to finalise plans for XH558’s ‘Winter Service’, which is required to be completed prior to the renewal of her Permit to Fly on 3rd July.”

It would still have been nice to have had an announcement just prior to Waddington warning people that the Permit-to-Fly hadn’t yet been renewed and that the Vulcan was relying on ‘mitigation’ to fly at all.

Not if both sets of points were set at the same time! the little plastic actuator arm wears away (without sufficient grease) and the gap closes bit by bit.

Is it me or was there a post from Creaking Door, to which this was a reply?

Yes, you could well be right, it does sound like a points problem.

Yes, oops! Accidentally deleted my post while adding to it! 😮

Would it be worth asking this question on one of the Military (Tank) forums as they would have a lot more experience with the Meteor engine.

Why bother when we have our own resident Meteor engine / Tank expert! 🙂

The Meteor has two fuel pumps, either one of which has plenty of capacity to run the engine. A lack of pressure on one primer lever just indicates that pump is on the cam, rotating the engine slightly would restore the pumping. Meteors also have two carbs. Are you sure the throttle and choke linkages are working correctly on both.

There is a lot to check on a Meteor but if it idles ok, it’s probably not an inlet air leak. I would check that both mags are working, you can do this by switching off your mag switches individually. You are looking for a small rev drop on each switch. A dead stop on one switch indicates the other mag is not working.

Vulcan Permit renewal Update
Monday, July 06, 2009

…on Friday 3rd July, MA were informed by the CAA that the justification for deferring the inspections was inadequate and that the CAA would require a much more detailed explanation before the Permit would be renewed. This report would also need to be underwritten by BAE Systems.

The level of detail required by CAA and the need for endorsement by BAE Systems meant that this could not be provided without significant additional work. Despite discussions between MA, the CAA and BAE Systems that ran on late into Friday evening and the following morning, there was no mechanism found that could have allowed the Vulcan to display…

So why wasn’t something to that effect posted on the VTTS website on Friday night?

You’ll have to excuse my ignorance but I’m guessing that the timing on a Meteor is adjusted by slackening the fixing bolts and rotating the magnetos relative to the shaft that drives them (and hence relative to the crankshaft thus adjusting the ignition timing). If you haven’t done that the timing shouldn’t (and I stress shouldn’t) have changed.

There’s nothing else you’ve been doing recently around the engine?