Haven’t you misinterpreted the DE drawings of the Type G hangar?
To me it seems clear that these hangars are certainly not designed to be built underground. Sure they are ‘hardened’ with earth revetments to the sides (and rear?) and have armoured doors but there is no evidence whatsoever of a ramp ‘down’ to the hangar or any deep covering of earth over the top.
The only way you could ‘bury’ one of these hangars would be under a hill.
Also, what do you think was (or is?) in ‘deep long term storage’?
Well my source, who was involved in the fitting of the winders to the GR3 considered the fit a bit gash…..Bodge, in RAF slang means a non standard quick fix…
Sorry for the confusion, I’ve no problem with the word ‘bodge’ it is a well known and accepted engineering term, and in many of the cases stated, highly appropriate, but I just didn’t want C-TT-18 singled out for criticism; he is young but as he quite rightly points out, a least he is taking the trouble to read about this period of our history.
I’ve actually been there (more than once!!!) Seen a few wrecks…..and even stood on the wing of a Dagger (C-403), shot down over West Falkland by Lt Steve Thomas on 21st May (got a turbine blade from the engine kicking around in the loft somewhere).
As for your Falklands experience I am green with envy…..but I don’t doubt there was a lot of hard work too.
Sounds like a dodgey plan that got shelved before the ship departed.
Clearly, but I’m amazed it got even as far as these trials!
Harriers flew on to the forward pad… (To the front of the pad was a forecastle weather shield, and a large mast).
Yes, but personally I’d have taken a gas-axe to the lot! Even then I don’t suppose there was much chance of doing anything other than a vertical take-off. Maybe with a couple of weeks in a RN dockyard a ski-jump could have been ‘bodged-up’ (I mean superbly improvised!) but time was too short.
Well it was not a head on engagement, was it.
Wasn’t it? Maybe I’ve got it all wrong but I’d assumed that the footage came from the tracker of the Type-22 that shot the Dagger down, so yes, I thought it was a head-on engagement?
I doubt many of these types of ‘hardened’ hangars were seriously contemplated pre-war, especially in Britain.
Yes, these vast underground structures would offer fantastic protection but at huge cost, a cost far greater than the aircraft that they were intended to protect. During the Battle-of-Britain at least, the numbers of aircraft destroyed on the ground was quite limited and when aircraft were destroyed in this way the most valuable part, the pilot, usually survived.
Post-war when anti-airfield weapons had improved, when aircraft were far more expensive and far fewer in number there does seem to have been a trend for elaborate hardened facilities, especially where a nation’s strategies (and terrain) favoured them.
Stories of ‘vast underground bunkers’ seem to exist wherever there are military sites.
…orignal footage released however show a Dagger being hit by a Sea Wolf from the rear (aircraft pitches up on fire) which has been shown on the odd occasion…
I know this piece of footage well and agree with your description except that I’ve always assumed that the Dagger was struck in the rear as opposed to from the rear?
One bit of often shown Falklands footage is of ‘something’ moving rapidly from left-to-right in the distant sky over (presumably) San Carlos. After perhaps five seconds the object explodes with a short sharp bang, there is no ‘fireball’ but four ‘glowing’ pieces are seen to fall.
Although it is often presented as an exploding aircraft I’ve always thought it was a Sea Cat missile exploding at the end of its run. Anybody?
As we can assume Bigvern might have been born in 1966 I think that is unlikely.
Glad you mentioned BIGVERN’s use of the word ‘bodge’ but Chris G was actually quoting Canberra-TT18 who certainly wasn’t born in 1966…..anyway back to the topic. 🙂
I remember sitting in a field overlooking Plymouth Sound while some Harrier pilot made repeated landing/take-offs on the rear cargo door of the Atlantic Conveyor…I seem to recall the door being a bit shorter than the Harrier so it landed with the nose partly inside the ship & took off by going up/backwards for a while…
That’s interesting; I’ve never heard anything about that before. Presumably the plan was to transport the GR3/FRS1 south inside and under cover (the GR3 apparently lacked some of the saltwater resistant features of the FRS1).
From the sounds of it the take-off would require lots of skill (and a dead-flat-calm).
…what were you doing at the time of the Falklands?
Give the guy a break…..he was probably waiting for his mum to meet his dad! 🙂
Possibly understandable since the Sidewinder fit was non-standard on GR3.
I’d forgotten the serious consequences of this incident; I’m fairly sure nobody was killed but there may have been some injured.
There seem to be a set of internationally (NATO?) accepted TLA’s (Three Letter Abbreviations :D) for all classes of warship.
I’ve seen the following quoted:
SSN – Ship Submersible Nuclear
SSBN – Ship Submersible Ballistic (Missile Carrying) Nuclear
SSK – Ship Submersible Conventional (Konventional? – Diesel Powered)
I don’t suppose they are all true abbreviations so long as everybody knows them and understands. 😉
There seem to be a set of internationally (NATO?) accepted TLA’s (Three Letter Abbreviations :D) for all classes of warship.
I’ve seen the following quoted:
SSN – Ship Submersible Nuclear
SSBN – Ship Submersible Ballistic (Missile Carrying) Nuclear
SSK – Ship Submersible Conventional (Konventional? – Diesel Powered)
I don’t suppose they are all true abbreviations so long as everybody knows them and understands. 😉
I think one parked GR3 fired a Sidewinder across Stanley airfield post-war!
Shortly after the end of the conflict I seem to remember reading that for some reason none of the gun cameras worked in the Sea Harrier / Harrier. I think the comment was made during a discussion of the reliability of these aircraft.
It always sounded a bit suspect…..and I’m sure at the time there was good reason to keep the footage secret.
Creaking Door, this IS the replica that was at Old Warden for a while.
Now based at Sywell.;)
Ooops! 😮 That would explain the apparent similarity then! 😀
WW1 aircraft aren’t really my thing. 🙁
Yes the pick-axe handles were a (necessary) period fitment. The high centre of gravity and the propensity of the Triplane to swing on landing would frequently combine to result in a wingtip contacting the deck.
The ‘Spitzhacke-Griff’ (hope my German’s correct) were a way of minimising damage.
Interesting, and authentic too, thanks! 🙂
He is a fighter pilot! 😀 And certainly ‘talks a good game’…..but in the Falklands at least, he was proved right.
I looked it up to check I’d got my facts right:
“…three unnamed Sea Harrier pilots…..hardly held their own against the [Mirage III], and were certainly not trying to claim they had come out on top.
I know exactly who these three [Sea Harrier pilots] were from the remarks made by them in the report and from how they acquitted themselves in combat. They are not what you would wish to call ‘aces of the base’ in fighter combat…
Their tactics…..were inadvisable, but predictable for the individual pilots involved.”
And the Mirages won hands down! 🙁
But ‘Sharkey’ Ward CO 801 NAS dismissed the results saying he was ‘not surprised’ on finding out which pilots flew the Sea Harriers in DACT on this occasion!
I think the limiting factor with reconnaissance, either satellite or SR-71, over the Falklands was the weather. During the whole conflict there were only about seven days when the weather was good enough to allow large-scale air operations and most photo-reconnaissance sorties were carried out at low-level.
What engine does this replica use? Looks like rotary cylinders beneath the cowling, or are they just dummies?
Also, are the ‘skids’ on the lower wing as fitted to the original? The Fokker triplane replica at Old Warden has these too (hickory sledge-hammer handles from the look of them :D).
Looks very nice by the way. 🙂