Yeah I agree. We almost always see a picture of a new plane while it’s on the tarmac. It’ll be clarified in two days I suppose.

I don’t assume, its been published in both Chinese and Russian circles. Its one of those accepted facts that the Yak-141 engine (the R-79) was terminated by the Soviets only to be sold by the Russians during the cash crisis. The R-79 was developed in Russia for up to 14 tons of thrust. The design goal of the Chinese (using Chinese and Russian engineers) is 18 tons. (None of the sources seem to clarify which type of ton, but they imply the mertic ton.) And the data put out for the WS-15 seems to be sourced from them. They also point to four versions of the WS-15:

WS-15X for the J-20 prototype flight testing
WS-15-10 for the enlarged J-10B; export
WS-15-13 for the enlarged J-10B; domestic
WS-15-CJ for the F-35B equivalent

And which source is this? I think I remember reading about that in one post over on a different forum a while ag but I believe it was written off as BS. Everyone credible at least haven’t but their weight behind it, and if WS-15 was a development off the Russian engine there would be at least a mention from any of the typical sources.

I honestly think its a case of sour grapes. The restrictions have certainly helped in the development of Chinese defense industry but the point is they don’t have anything comparable and don’t have the option to purchase it.

Well one way of telling if it is sour grapes, is to ask whether he wants his own “faction” (PLAN) to have the same deal IN is getting, or whether IN could have worked out a better project themselves or negotiated better or whatever.

The fact the Chinese industry hasn’t had a demand to produce such an aircraft from PLA (they certainly have the capability) further makes me think it’s not a real question of capability or lack of capability but whether P-8’s getting what they need. Personally I don’t have a strong opinion either for or against.

If we’re adding in geopolitics as a reason for “sour grapes” that’s another matter.

I think such a conclusion is inherently flawed.

After all, Sukhoi, had an aircraft…that had S-ducts…a flat clean belly…hell was matte black too 😉 , and yet they went for a different configuration on the PAK-FA. That tells me something. Anyways, this is going OT.

Fair enough, but I’m only talking about shaping. I mean we can agree on certain principles whether it’s in aerodynamics or VLO and say “this is better than that for this result” but we cannot necessarily know the final end result because of other factors — in the case of the PAK FA’s case, the stealthiness of the aircraft’s underside compared with that of J-20 or f-22. And I think it’s generally accepted the less round and less features a surface has, the “better” shaping it has.
Of course I’m not making a conclusion about the aircraft’s overall underside VLO because there’s RAM and perhaps some other trick which sukhoi has applied to make up for the shaping.

Basically I’m saying we can make a call on an individual “part” but not the effect on the “whole,” which I used for against eyeballing J-20s aerodynamic performance too, because we just don’t know how the individual features add up.

And I agree that it’d be a stretch to say s ducts are better than blockers or vice versa.

Technically speaking and first glance eyeballing? Niiiiice.
What is technically advanced about an S-duct?

Nice pic though. Is the belly touched up at all?

I don’t think anyone said an s duct being more advanced. But yes we can eyeball shaping to an extent and I think the underside of j-20, along with f-22 is stealthier than that of f-35 and Pak fa. Eyeballing rcs and overall aerodynamics is flawed IMO but we can eyeball parts of an aircraft’s shaping and come to a decent conclusion

The picture is actually an old one put on a cruddy background. I don’t think it’s been retouched beyond that; you can see the weapon bay doors.

they either do or would like to :diablo:

not that the Indians wouldn’t want to do the same in the South China Sea.. now where’s the PLANs “P-8”?

Err SSNs maybe, but I don’t think SSKs have the endurance to operate at that kind of distances.

There are constant rumours about a more dedicated MPA based off Y-8 (GX6?), when it comes out is anyone’s guess. PLA definitely needs a fixed wing ASW aircraft, as much as they needed AEW&C early last decade. It’s strange, they have the technology to build a decent MPA but have yet to go beyond the current Y-8X and SH-5. The only reason I can imagine for this is due to production limitations and the perceivecd importance in using Y-8s for other platforms before MPA…

Maybe later this decade. P-8 is definitely a nice looking aircraft.

ooh very naaisss..

song and yuan class watch out!
Type 214.. maybe they can breathe a little bit more..

Yes because PLAN SSKs consistently operate near Indian waters :p