anandahttp://globalnation.inquirer.net/79629/ph-to-buy-two-maestrale-frigates-from-italy
Those two articles above dated same day (3 July 2013), both quoting Philippines DoD officials on defense modernisation. However come out differently. The Globalnation say the procurement of 2 Maestralle Frigates is on going, while the interaksyon ones says that DoD will not buy Maestralle and decided to go with 2 brand new Frigates.
This either show that Philippines media quickly jump to their own conclusions, or worse show inconsitency on Philippines DoD decisions making process. This can further reduce Philippines DoD credibility when dealing with Defense contractors on the procurement process.
anandaDouble Post
anandaA corrupt political system based on hollow populist statements.
Philippines would probably be run under Chinese rule.
Sometimes I wonder if Philippines politicians really work for Philippines interest. But then again if you see the so called ‘democratic’ politicians in many newly democratic nations, you may also see those Politicians really ‘not’ working for their constituent but for whoever the highest bidder will be.
Indonesian political environment turn out not so much different with what played on in Philippines ones, thus some kind of structure being created to minimise to ‘vultures’ politicians medling with defense procurement. One of them is getting ‘free’ second hand defense equipment (like F-16 C/D from US or C-130H from Australia), and ‘camouflage’ the procurement cost as modification costs. That way since it conducted G to G with credible Partner, it will have close to zero chances for the Politicians to get a ‘deal’ with suppliers on modification projects. This deals made huge oppositions from Parliement that see their chances on getting slice of the deal evaporated.
Not ideal, but something must be done to minimise the politicians medling. Perhaps Philippines could try that also.
anandaThailand has more budget than Philippines. Besides Thai AF has more modern build in support infrastucture than PAF to begin with. If PAF has as much as budget like Thai AF, and buy Gripen and SAAB AEW to support them. However they only have limited budget and has to share it with the other two branches of Armed Forces..Prioritising is what they have to do. Not wishy wishy something that potentislly flip-floping the plan that being set.
My worried that this will be used by Politicians to distorte the President plan, and it will end up with PAF procured nothing..
anandaThe overall defense procurement budget is P75 bio or USD 1.7 bio for all 3 branches of armed forces for 5 years. Phillipines President already promissed new modern AF for PAF by 2016, that’s included Light Fighter/LIFT, COIN, MPA, numerous other transport and helicopters, Aerial Ground Based Radars (which from several sources the last 3 ex US Radars has not operational for sometime, and PAF at this moment rely on Civilian Radars), Simulators, and other modern support facilities.
With budget only USD 1.7 bio that divided to 3 branches of Armed Forces, PAF will be very lucky to get what The President promisses..Gripen ? It will chew more than half of that budget, and PAF will end up with shiny new gripen without any facilities to support them. For crying out loud..they even has no working military radars for Air Defence..how they are going to operate Gripen effectively without ground based radars and survailance facilities..
Stick to finalise those 12 FA-50..with Philippines procurement record that flip-floping from one item to the next..it will be an achivement for it self if they manage to equip PAF as the President Plan..why side tracking on Gripen? when the initial plan it self including those FA-50, and more importantly the supporting infrastucture has not even being finalised yet.
anandaLittle bit off topic, although still with air lifters, does anyone knows why this project discontinued ? Not big enough for US taste ?[ATTACH=CONFIG]218248[/ATTACH]
anandaBit nationalistic, CN-235 MPA from Indonesian Navy. I believe this the first operational CN-235 with winglet. EADS already put winglet for C-295, but not CN-235. Photo from arc website.
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ananda[ATTACH=CONFIG]218245[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]218243[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]218244[/ATTACH]
Proportionwise Embrear one quite attractive, however since KC-390 is C-130 size, while Kawasaki freighter is A-400 size, the C-2 design for that class is quite atrractive. In my eyes, the design makes it not as big as A-400 although definetely on the same class. Any way, it is a matter of taste..I do have liking for a plane that are look smaller on the actual size.
anandaaccording to Japanese sources
http://www.chunichi.co.jp/hold/2008/ntok0011/list/200711/CK2007111002063769.htmlC-2 costs $80 million, which is much more than the KC-390 (but its bigger), slightly more than An-70 (about same size?), but much less than A-400.
An-70 and A-400 on capacity wise is more on same class with C-2. If C-2 open to export market, those USD 80 mio potentially can still be competitive considering the class C-2 will be competing with. For me, on esthethic sides only, I like C-2 line comparing to A-400.
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Hope Japan will allowed this for export market.
anandaHere is your top twenty
#1 MiG-21 Fishbed (and derivatives like F-7) has been used by 61 nations
#2 MiG-17 Fresco (incl. J-5) goes second with 43 nations
#3 F-5 Tiger II is third with 40 nations
#4 F-86 Sabre with 38 nations
#5 MiG-15 Fagot with 36 nations
#6 MiG-23/27 Flogger with 35 nations
Darn..I think I combined my calculation of nation that used Mig 15 and Mig 17…are those calculations above already included nations that used second hand fighters ?
anandaI go with Mig 15 as the most spread out jet fighter. Count at least 60+ nation that sometime or even presently still has/had Mig 15 on the inventory. Mostly in Africa and Asia. It’s the cheapest aircraft and the easiest to maintain for USSR and Eastern block wants to impress new regime in Africa and Asia with Jet Fighter in the newly establihed Air Force.
anandaSorry, but just because one type could be used for 40 years doesn’t mean that another type necessarily can. And while France and French companies certainly have the capability to make an upgraded Alpha Jet I really don’t see the point. They would have to spend millions just to create an aircraft for which they are likely to be the sole customer, which would take years of design and testing and still not be guaranteed success.
local assembly will not satisfied a developed defense industry like French. Indonesia (just as example) got some local asembly deal when buying KAI KT-1 and T-50, but what will satisfied an infant defense industry like Indonesia off course will not satisfied developed defense industry like French. So does what will satisfied India (which defense industries much more developed than Indonesia but still far to catch French), off course will not same with the need to maintain French defense industry development edge.
Just because Hawk 100 series (which HAWK T.2 based on), got a good export market, does not mean an upgraded version of Alpha Jet will only be a French only used. They still can bring German (who also has not choose the sucesscor for Alpha Jet for LIFT, as MEKO project discontinued). Yes, you can point the much more economical way is French to addopt a ready existing project like Hawk T.2, but some in French defense establishment can also say, that if we have to choose something that based on a design that in simmilar age with our Alpha, then better just to upgraded our Alpha.
Point is, what is the ‘best’ choice that will bring as much as benefit for French Industries. I put HJT since it will put more benefit in term for cooperation with one of largest defense market now and in the future, rather than go (again example) with Swiss PC-21. What benefit the industries need can outweight what the Air Force want. Even small player like Indonesia choose C-295 eventhough the Air Force prefered C-27, simply because EADS provided better deal to Indonesian DI/IAe than Lockheed did. If French adopt HAL HJT, it will benefit French leverage with HAL thus Indian market then relative much smaller market of Swiss (if choosing PC-21).
That’s what the discussion in this thread some times forgot. What French industries wants and prefered. Budget is much difficult to get this time around, you better make sure it will bring much more benefit first to local industries. Yes Hawk, can bring some job to French Industries, but upgrading Alpha to say 2020-2030 standard will benefit French industries more.
And just because clasic Hawk (Hawk 50,60 and T.1) outsell Alpha on export market, will not automatically say that upgraded Alpha will be a certain loss relative to any potential export of Hawk T.2. And even if it did, it also does not mean addopting Hawk will bring more jobs for French industries than an upgrade Alpha.
Just to add: read on korean sites sometime ago which claimed that T-50 can also be modified with Snecma engine. Don’t know how viable it is, but if it’s true, then French can also modifyied T-50 to take large portion of French content also, if they choose to get T-50.
anandaFor any trainer, I guess that France would need alt least to ctrl the engine and then the avionics.
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T-50 need much more effort to customise with french equipment, so does M-346. Hawk has more chances to customise for French equipment. However ‘if’ French need to invest with big project like changing their Alpha Jet with new trainer, why they need to give leverage for Hawk (UK) or M-346 (Italian), when taking Hal project will increase they leverage on one of the biggest defense market now and in the future.
Besides if T-38 still can be used for more than 4 decades. Alpha Jet still have 2 more decade, before need substantial changes. If UK can developed T-2, well French can also further developed Alpha if need be. What I’m getting at, if French need import trainer, then having Indian will benefit them more on future defense projects than having UK, Italian, Korean-US, or Rusian. Albeight on that, they always can developed Alpha for 2030 need.
anandaNot to mention that it can’t really fly adequately with the French engine, which is why a higher performing engine is in the actual flying Sitara.
Which has already been brought up in this thread by people who deigned to seriously respond to Ananda’s nationalist cheerleading, to be ignored as he repeats the same line.
Nationalist ? I’m not Indian, and if you see my other post, you will now where I’m coming from. I put Sitara since, it can provide additional leverage for Rafale, which until now is not yet a done deal yet despite already winning the contest.
Redicoule my post if you like, but the fact is getting with Hawk, M-346, T-50 (which is superb trainer which my country already become the first export customer, that’s me being nationalistic), will not gain anything for Frech industrial leverage.
Buying Indian is more make sense than buying Chinese-Pakistan jet which would not bring anymore substantial leverage for French. How much the French defense industry will get on getting Italian trainer, compared getting Indian ones? Any foreign trainer will be customised as much as posible with Freanch equipment, if French really serious on provide their own industry benefit in any large foreign purchase. Rather than customising Italian, Swiss, or even UK trsiners, then for industrisl benefit, it is more profitable for French defense industrial need, on customising Indian ones.
I put this HJT since this days everybody will think the benefit for their industrial need, compared just which toy is more shiny. Unless dasault decided to bring their own design, customising Indian one with french equipment, or bring HAL for join marketing of HJT (begin with customising HJT for French need), will make more sense for French future defense orders, then playing eith Italy, let alone China-Pakistan.
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