For Indonesian Air Force in the 60’s used 2 aircraft format for trainers:

T-6 Texan (Basic-Intermediate) -> L-29 (Advanced)

By 70’s the format then used 3 type of Aircraft:

AS-202 Bravo (Basic) -> T-34C (Intermediate) -> Hawk Mk53 (Advanced)

Currently the same format still maintained with different Aircraft:

Grob G-120 (Basic) -> KT-1B (Intermediate) -> TA-50 (Advanced)

From the 60’s all Advanced Trainers (L-29, Hawk Mk-53, TA-50) have armament capabilities, thus can be used as secondary Fighters (basically LIFT concept).

There are several types jets that can also be used for Trainers, but in Indonesian AF mostly used as Fighters in primary role and Trainers as secondary. Those are De Haviland Vampire (50’s), Mig-15 UTI (60’s), T-33 (70’s) and Hawk 109 (from 90’s until present). There’s also SF-260 grant from Singapore, now days being used mostly to maintain flight hours capabilities of AF pilots that being transferred for administrative duties.

and again, if you don’t think that anybody in europe will pursue new fast jet engine development in the next 15-20 years, that pretty much means they will lose their capacity
t.

I don’t think anyone suggest that euro company will abandoning new development. Designing uprated and more advance versions on present design still enhence their capacity and designing capability as big player on engine market.

However the definition of new clean sheet design where everything will be design from scratch, that’s I do believe not in their agenda at least up until 2020+. Evolution on design and not revolution on design is the game right now. Clean sheet design close to revolution on design, which up to next decade, will be very hard to justified economically.

it would be hillarious if all AMCA ends up to be is a stealthy airframe with Rafale guts, and KFX is a stealthy airframe with Eurofighter guts.

Why not ? India will used Rafale anyway, so if AMCA build around or modified Rafale with better airframe and updated system, don’t see that as hilarious. So does KFX, if build around Eurofighter systems. It’s a more economical and faster track if India AMCA and Korean KFX can be build as much improved versions of Rafale and Eurofighter.

A VL variant of Sea Cat certainly would need replacing 😀 The Nahkoda Ragam class is fitted with VL Seawolf. VL MICA as a replacement makes plenty of sense, Sea Ceptor is a number of years away from deployment and MICA is designed to be launched from the Sea Wolf VL silos.

Who,ha,ha, what I’m thinking..even when the article clearly say Sea Wolf. This when happen when you put your post at the same time watching TV..he,he.
Anyway VL Mica do being considered I believe also because the plan locally build Sigma based Light Frigate is being designed with VL Mica.

The plan to counter the Dutch carrier was not rest solely on Tu-16. However combination of assets. TU-16 was planed to be launch from it’s home-based on Java (at that time only one or two Air Base in Java that actually capable handling Tu-16), and then will have rendezvous with Mig-17 as escorts which already being put on forward AB in Moratai (ex US WW-2 AB during Mc Arthur Island Hoping campaign).

This being hoped to lured Karel Dorman Sea Hawk to meet them, while in the sea the main plan which was Indonesian Navy battle group lead by fast cruiser KRI Irian (ex USSR Ordzonikidze of Sverdlov class) with Skory class destroyers as escorts will moved to meet Karel Dorman with her destroyers escorts. While at the same time Whiskey class submarines which already stationed on Moluccas water, will moved to guard the perimeter.

The whole strategy adopted based on USSR battle plan on engaging US carrier battle group. Will it work ? well it’s open to speculations since it’s basically similar on speculating whether USSR strategy on engaging US battle group on open water will work or not.

Afterall rumors says about a third of KRI Irian crew and Half of Indonesian Whiskeys class submarines crew were Russian, since Indonesia did not have enough time to train the crews for manning the entire new Naval vessels from USSR in that time.

Below is some of surviving KRI Irian pictures that already circulating on line. Look at the picture of the gun deck which show the Sailors featuring Indonesian/Southeast Asian faces while the officer in front of the gun clearly Caucasians.

Add: Indonesian Navy at that time also equipped with maritime variants of IL-28 torpedo bombers. This from what I’ve gather plan as back up if TU-16 plan drooped due to long range operation radius that they have to operated from Java to Papua. Unlike Tu-16, Morotai as forward AB can handle IL-28, so like Mig-17 they already stationed there. It’s being calculated that if TU-16 being used to attack Karel Dorman carrier group on Papuan waters, it will stretch their endurance to the limit. On paper they can do it, but only just.

Please, I don’t mean to be a trolll by any means here, BUT how feasable is the thought of sending Typhoons on a straight flight from Ascension Island to the FALKLANDS against Argentinian opposition.
Hammer

How the Argentinian will find those Typhoon and MRTT in the middle of Atlantic from Ascension ? Does the Argentinian have AWACS or other AEW assets that will accompany their Mirage (or just the scenario’s says the Venezuelan lend Flankers) patrolling the Atlantic hoping to ambush them ?

Does the Argentinian having access to ‘say’ surveillance satellite network that put their camera and sensors toward Ascension Island and the route from there toward, thus able to alert them whenever RAF Typhoon flight with their MRTT arrive in Ascensions or departed from there ?

Will Argentinian have enough Tankers to fill their Mirage or lend Flankers patrolling near Falkland/Malvinas airspace hoping to ambush them when they’re approaching the Island ? Even they can manage to put one or two of their C-130 tankers near the island to support their Mirage or Flankers patrol, how do they expect the existing Typhoon flight in the Falkland did not shoot them from the sky ?

The thing is, even when they DID have air superiority (and with relative much more capable AF) over Falkland airspace back in 1982, they even can’t stop RAF Vulcan from Ascension to bomb them. Now with less capable AF, and with no Air Superiority over Falkland airspace (let alone Atlantic airspace), how in the world they can even dream to think giving opposition to RAF Typhoon and their MRTT (and I do agree with Swerve, RAF Awacs that accompany them) over Atlantic en route from Ascension ??

Here’s an interesting What If.

Assume 1979 rolls on and the Shah retains power.

What would the IIAF look like in 2012?

What will happen with IIAF ?
Besides fully equiped with F-14 and F-16, they will also (and probably bankrolled) F-22 and F-35 which by this time beginning to phased out F-14 and F-16.

Also, Iran will become the second Nuclear armed nation in Middle East with full US Backing :rolleyes:

Forget F.1 upgrades, build your own Rafale offshoot. 😀

Yeah right, another Novi Avion dream 😀

Indonesia pay USD 750 mio for upgrading 24 F-16, and preaparing another USD 300 mio for another 10 F-16 project. Thailand upgrading project for 18 F-16 projected around USD 600 mio +. All F-16 projects consists on heavy structural airframe upgrade and avionics up to Block 50 standard.

Yes, no much low flying hour F-16 left. But both Thailand and Indonesia projects potentially can still yield another 6000 airframe hour more (from projected 2000 hour airframe hour that still left on the existing airframe). That put 8000 hour for the airframe after the upgraded projects. Which translate for 10 – 15 years more operational time frame or even up to 20 years.

This in my mind still provide best options for second hand western fighters programe compared to upgrading Mirage 2000 or Mirage F-1 projects.