anandaSo finally a good chance that Americans’ will be having trainers of Russian origin and undoubtedly the best trainer. Probably generation+++ ahead of the Hawk series.
KAI T-50 is more advance than Yak 130, and it’s actually a Lockheed design. So advance that some potential customers think it’s too much for a trainer. So why they (the American) need to use Russian design, if they can use what actually Lockheed design ?
anandaOf relevance to this thread, Indonesia’s economy is predicted to overtake –
Turkey in 2017
Australia in 2023
South Korea’s in 2029
France in 2050
The sized of one nation economy sometimes is not relevant to how big or how advanced their military is or will be. Even now some Indonesian parliament members and NGO’s still questions the increased Military budget for 2 reasons:
1. They don’t see immediate external threat to Indonesia,
2. (This especially from foreign funded NGO’s), They afraid bigger military spending will only increased corruption from Indonesian Military brass.
anandaDedicated airframes.
However, use common engines, sensors, equipment etc as much as possible.
So, in the end you could have:
- Common engine[*]Common radar back end (i.e. APG-81 back end) but different front ends with different dish sizes having different T/R counts[*]Common MAWS/RWR[*]Common IRST[*]Common display avionics
1 common airframe with many aerodynamic compromises is a joke. JSF is a result of structuring a program that is more tailored to political ideals than engineering reality.
This what the Automotive industry being done so far. One based, and from that common based they developed Sedan, Estate, Coupes,SUV, MPV, or whatever the market wants. Just wandering though, the insistence from Aircraft Industry on having one airframe for all need is based on the high cost and time to developed separated dedicated airframes.
How big and time consuming actually is for developing separated airframes from one common based ?
anandaThe Final design for KF-X still not come out from the design team yet. They suppose to deliver the final design sometimes this year (probably after 2nd semester at the soonest). Whatever or how much Indonesia or Turkey will contribute is secondary matter. The most important thing is how much and how big Korea willingness to continue with the program.
Still why this talk that this (KF-X) will compete with F-35 ? Talking with some people in Di/IAe in here, saying that none of design team especially the team from KAI even dream they building F-35/PAKFA competitor. The plan is to build something that close to be 4.5+ gen fighter, that is relative have cutting edge technology, but still competitively priced in order for ROK and Indonesia (then perhaps Turkey) have in considerable numbers.
All the party (Korea and Indonesia and perhaps Turkey) are not planning to have KF-X as their most sophisticated fighters in their inventory after 2020+. But they do plan to have sophisticated enough fighter for the future that can be build locally. This is the plan for the participating nations to build their respective Aircraft industry updated with the latest technology.
In such they don’t plan like Locheed with F-35 to developed something from the scratch. In such they’re looking for ‘technological’ partner (that’s what EADS now offering to KAI) that can provide their ‘existing’ technology to be sandwiched in the design.
Since they (the design team) plan is to use existing technology available in the market, the cost and time table even-though sound ambitious, but in my opinion still doable due to the scope they plan.
BTW, F-16 in Indonesia, including the refurbished ones, is plan as stop-gap. While the budget for KF-X is set separately.
anandaJust wandering, with nearly two decades since their last submarines being build, how much submarine manufacturing capacity and capability that the Dutch domestic builders still maintain.
anandaJust Curious, in the Western surface ships, do woman crew sharing same quarter, same bathroom with mans crew ? If they don’t, then the same partition arrangement has to be make available in the subs.
If that happen, then size of the subs will be increase just to clear for this arrangement. Well that’s a lot of cost just for sex equality. I know the arguments, that the Scandinavian already used unisex arrangements in their subs. But will the other western nation navy accept the unisex arrangements in their ships ?
Well I said Western nation, since non western nation Navy I believe will find it rather difficult to accept Unisex arrangement in their ships. Well for me, I don’t mind the Unisex arrangements, it’s rather refreshing if you have to stay for a month or more under a steel tube. It’s just like spring break all over again 😉
anandaIdeally, I would love to see an optionally piloted version of the OV-10X Bronco, it would make a brilliant UCAV/COIN aircraft! The ability to carry either a 20mm M197 cannon or M230 30mm cannon on the centreline, which can be slewed to targets. Add to that the ability to carry a good warload, and proven ruggedness. Imagine having the ability to have a UAV/UCAV flying overhead, able to effectively do a strafing run, without having to carefully manoeuvre into position first. Add to this, the ability to airdrop small loads from the cargo space in the rear (or just carry extra fuel of course), enabling you to drop medical supplies or ammunition to units using something like the Copterbox…
I might be little late on this, Why OV-10X project can’t get attention from US ? OV-10 is much proven COIN than Super Tucano. Potential of OV-10X will be very interesting for capabilities which seems back in demand on the market.
anandaYou seen the estimated price tags on those Silent Eagles? North of 100 million makes the F-35 more attractive.
Isn’t USD 100 mio is because they don’t get USAF attracted with the program ? If they can get USAF join the program, then potential order from Aussies, Singapore, ROK, Japan, Saudis and Israel can also come in, thus can (in theory) reduce the development and procurement cost.
I put this only since this new development for refurbishing old F-15 C/D airframes.
anandaspeaking of which, why didn’t the US opt for one of those instead of the OV-10 bronco ?
I seconded on that. For COIN, OV-10 has (what I believe) the most effective battle proven record especially after Vietnam. The USMC uses them well in Vietnam, so Does Indonesia in East Timor, Aceh and Papua, and also at the moment the Philippines against Islamic and Communist insurgencies.
Talking with some Indonesian Air Force pilots, and in their mind, if in US available upgrade packages for OV-10, they’ll prefer that rather than Super Tucano which Indonesian Air Force ordered after they can’t get more ‘juices’ left from their tired OV-10 airframes.
anandaRather than extending the life of original F-15C/D why not just take the money and developed for F-15 Stealth Variance ? They can recoup the money when they sell the F-15 SE to ROK, Singapore, Japan, Australia, or anyone else that want F-22 or waiting for F-35 but increasingly worried with the spiraling upward cost trend.
anandaWell saying that it was a lack of money or lack of technical base is stating the obvious.The lack of money to pay for the prefered option usually leads to compromises.Ploitics and regime changes are another,but I’d like to know exactly what I got wrong since all of what I’ve posted were at one time proposals.
So,in light of this I shall say for this post,not all are “prefered options” but proposels.Which I think would still fit in here.
Thailand-F/A-18C/D Hornet-Had to cancel contract due to financial reasons.
South Korea-F/A-18C/D Hornet-Got some more F-16s instead.
Israel-F/A-18D Hornet-Got the F-16I instead
USAF-CH-46B SeaKnight-Ordered but cancelled and got HH-3s instead
US Army-CH-46C SeaKnight-Evaluated but ordered CH-47 instead
China-Wanted the Harrier but never got any
United Kingdom-Wanted the TSR.2 and got the Buccaneer instead
Since the catagory of wanting already widen enough, I would also put ‘ Wanting but given another due to President Family business’.
For THat I put in the mid 90’s Indonesia want more F-16 but then President Soeharto children got better deal with BAe. Thus more F-16 being replaced by Hawk Mk100/200 (in which the price of those Hawk close to price of F-16).
That’s for catagory of wanting but turn down by corruption.
anandaHow about ‘unwanted’ Aircraft:
In the 60’s Indonesian Air Force only wants Mig 17 and Mig-21, but in order to get it they have also to accept Mig 15 and Mig 19.
ananda3. Forget the possibility of producing more F-2A/B ~ Japan Air Self-Defense Force has even decided to give up refurbishing the 12 F-2B that were damaged by the tsunami in the March this year, not to mention re-opening the productional line and producing more F-2A/B……
That’s something seems for me don’t understand the logic behind that. Swerve already mentioned that F-2 is already a Politically ‘tainted’ project due to the previous problem with F-2. However F-2 seems already being readdressed the problem and already matured to be capable 4.5 gen aircraft.
With only 42 requirements, and looking to Japanese practice, isn’t it more efficient to continue open F-2 production line rather than open another production line for whatever Typhoon or Shornet they will choose as F-X ? Again it will be different story if the choices is between F-2 vs F-35 or if the requirements is much more than just 42 airframes.
In this cost conscience environment, well I just don’t get it. But heck, I’m not a Politician, thus can’t understand Politician logic anyway :rolleyes:
anandaI my self think Japan would be better to further developed their F-2 rather than go with F-18 Shornet. F-2 already have AESA, and composite body. Further developing the Sensors and Avionics (like the AESA which I heard have some problem), will give them something that can match whatever Boeing offered on the Shornet.
The cost problem in F-2 will be reduced if the Japanese continue open the production line. Well this if the only choice is F2 vs Shornet or Typhoon. It will be different if the choice is F2 vs F-35. I know it’s been discussed before, but I’m still strongly believe developing further F-2 will be more beneficial and suitable for Japan Self Defence Air Force and their local industry.
But what do I know 😀
anandaWhy even bother ? What is wrong with privatisation. Its the best way forward. Sell them all infact there should be no PSUs and only companies based on profit in that way our country will have higher growth rate and better companies.
Well it’s a compromise when you’re facing with Political situation that’s hostile with outright privatization of government entities. Some country facing with only limited number of Defense Industry that, politically the Politician want’s them all still on the hand of Government control.
Made them transparent and responsible to market economy while still under Government control is not the most ideal way, but again it’s a compromise.
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