Las Malvinas for Argentina

Ulster for Ireland

Gibraltar for Spain

YOU MAY TAKE OUR WIVES…AND MAYBE OUR LIVES…BUT YOU’LL NEVER TAKE OUR SANDWICHES!!!

You obviously missed Cueta for Morrocco or does your argument only apply to the British.

I will humour you and review your point.

Your list did not include the following collonies.
India (I admit it was kept peaceful by Ghandi, but also has to be noted that independance would have been sooner if britian hadnt kept hold of it as they could see WW2 looming).
Leeward islands
sierra Leone
Malaya
antigua
British Hondoras
Cyprus
Bruni
Jamaica
burma
New Zealand
Australia
+ many others as all have been granted independance.
Now youre list

1) Ulster the 6 counties voted to remain in the UK, now whatever you think of the voting process this remains the case. (In the event of a majority wanting to join the south im sure a referendum will be held, but do note agreements with the south in the 80s met with fierce opposition in the north).
2) Gibralter, this is only a colony in the eyes of the UN and this is because spain wont let it be taken off the list of colonies for political regions.
the population is pretty much indeginous but does not want to be part of spain a point they made democratically.
3) Falklands An uninhabited lump of rock which was colonised by the french and english, then abandoned possibly ceeded to spain (bit of argument as to wether the document included the islands). The Yanks threw the Spanish out.
An argentine expedition circa 1830 sought british permission to go to the islands in 1833 after a mutiny and other problems the garrison was evicted, some reports state that a few of the colonists remain, as the british recolonised the islands.
The population now is Falkland islander (or benny / still / yeti ) or colloquially Kelpers.
The UK does not run the Falklands they govern themselves the UK provides only for there defence nor will the UK necasserilly benefit from any oil finds.
Successive British govenments prior to 1982 had sought to get rid of the falklands the local population wished overwhelmingly to remain british.
Following the events of 1982 and a political storm in (i think) the late 70s following talks with argentina it is now UK policy to discuss nothing regarding the islands without yheir permission.

Swerve im sure will correct any miss interpretations or errors on my part (cheers swerve)

Oh and of course Scotland is about to vote for independance.

So perhaps those “colonies” that remain do so through choice.

I struggled to find fuel yesterday 2 places sold out and a massive queue at sainsburys. Decided to grab a few litres of veggie oil just in case no fuel was to be found en route.

Resorted to stopping and only filling what i needed for the journey at a service station which appeared to have over inflated its already exhorbirant prices.

The wonderfull storage containers people of using was some what bewildering particuarly as i get bawled of the the forecourt if im caught with a metal jerry can.

Explaining that in the landrover a 5 ltr can wont get me anywhere falls on deaf ears

I think one of the problems is the media. The continual analysis and picking over of everything and anything a politician says make them frightened to say anything in case it is misinterpreted . They are so concerned about how it might look rather than speak the truth that we end with these mealy-mouthed sound-bite driven politicians. The fact that the current incumbent of No.10 is a PR person by trade speaks volumes about the sort people we now have in politics. Indeed none of the leaders have had what you might call “proper” jobs.

I agree whole heartedly but would like to say also add to this that all to often we do not get factual news in that far to often personal or publication/corporation spin is included, further muddying the waters.

call me old fashioned but i want my news to be cold hard facts and information, a seperate byline with political commen is acceptable.

P.S i also do not consider Jordans breasts, John Terrys lovelife, jordans lastest fling, jordans breasts, Big brother house, what happens next week in eastenders etc, insert hollywood celebrity lovelife or jordans breasts to be news worthy.

Arthur I agree that the suggestion to top up will encourage people to buy fuel when it wasnt needed, but at the same time keeping topped up [COLOR=”Black”]in the event of a strike being announced[/COLOR] is a sensible precaution ” Be prepared” and all that.
Note the bold, the sentence frequently buried in the text by the media.

I am willing to be persuaded that perhaps better wording or at least assuring the media were onside may have prevented alot of the panic buying, but I do not believe that labour or a N other would or could have done anything different.

re the strike I dont know all the ins and outs of this one but I am rapidly falling out with unite, they seem to have been pushing for a strike for any reason simply because it isnt a labour government (yes I know i put that a bit over simplistically) but i feel they are less concerned with there members well being and are more concerned with making a political point ala scargil.

re the panic buying do you think this is indicative of a problem with our society whereby personal responsibillity and thus common sense have been eroded to such a degree that we are in danger of becoming sheep

Im not sure how the government can be held responsible for the current state of affairs.

In response to the question what advice would you give Maude gave his response, to my mind the only wrong bit was about Jerry cans but if you accept that he has probably subsituted fuel can for jerry can as millions do then its probably forgivable.

A few individuals panic buying and then a huge media storm has resulted in a self inflicted fuel shortage.

Have we really got to the state in this country that the vast majority are incapable of rational thought. I hope not.

As to resignation demands in light of the much publicised accident, I see that as nothing more than petty politicing.
Yes it was unfortunate and traumatic and I have no desire to mock or insult the individual concerned but we also have to accept that it was also an act of complete stupidity that flies in the face of every piece of advice ever given regarding petroleum products (advice the individual would see every time the car was filled) and that no one but her is to blame for this.

(that said i hope the scarring will be minimal and superficial).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindermyer
At a quick glance I refer you to French Strategy and BW on his more Rabid days over at strategy page (although im sure he was just trying to wind up herald) I will hasten to add that although somewhat blindly devoted to Rafale he does concede typhoon has good points.

You can hardly compare personal fan’s opinion with official statement by PR representative, ministers, publications etc. The recent rant from Cameron is a example of such behaviour. One would expect more professionalism from such people.

My mistake i thought you were refering to posters on this forum, however its my experience that sales blurb is generally all the same and poloticians tend to spout off

Computing and electronics are quite complex fields, and I can tell you from experience than when working on large and complex software one cannot be sure of anything until it is released and the customer start been unhappy… Look at most of recent games or Microsoft releases etc. Despite spending a lot of money on testing teams, beta versions etc you always get a lot of bugs when they’re first released that are then worked on. ETF suffering from questionable management and on and off funding is disastrous for the development of any technology. It’s especially true nowadays with the importance of computers and IS technologies.

Project and political managment has been lousy but at the technical level the engineers have probably got on ok

Now while it’s true that EFT has a larger antenna, nobody has of today been able to tell me the exact difference between the two and how large of an impact such a difference would be. Now assuming that both aircraft get engineering, sensor fusion and EM management right, and assuming the difference in aperture can be significant enough then I would give the EFT the edge.

Bold – exactly what I was saying (or trying to)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindermyer
released bits of Tech evaluations are not a good source to the layman as they tend to display x is better than y without context eg as you cited the swiss Typhoon scored badly on AESA because of risk.

From my careful read of the Swiss evaluation I don’t see how the result can be said not to be clear. Every summaries and subsection are quite clear about their preference. However we don’t know how they got those result exactly in the first place. But that shouldn’t be a excuse to dismiss it completely unless it can be proved that what was released was altered in any ways.

Bold this is my point exactly, i also agree it cant be dissmissed out of hand but nor does it definatly prove tyhoon or rafale is a better or worse aircraft – context is everything.

While it is true that the CAPTOR-E may have suffered because of risks factor what is the excuse for the CAPTOR-M against the PESA RBE ?

Perhaps for the swiss range is less important than the beter modes of operation of the PESA.
Perhaps its felt it wont be as electronically robust
Perhaps as AESA is the new thing a mechanical Radar is marked down as old hat and scores badly regardless
As you said we dont know, I doubt its any huge failing in the A2A arena as the RAF are happy to delay AESA as they find Captor M up to the task.

In the end I’m only using this report to politely say that unless one here is a intelligence and electronic warfare officer or a pilot, we don’t even know if during evaluation the full spectrum of the radar capabilities are demonstrated.
In the end we simply don’t know. It would be better to say both aircraft have the sensor that answer best to their actual mission requirements.

completely agree and as for the bold EXACTLY MY POINT

Well… Currently EFT cannot drop bombs. Some of the RAF EFT can because of “special” modifications. By the end of this year it should be another story though. But then crews will have to be trained so I think first operational squadrons will be circa 2013-2014 for the most enthusiastic predictions.

I agree with what youre point in General, but to claim the Typhoon cannot drop bombs is a tad disengeious. The modification is simply the integration validation and required software – all the hardware are exists. The RAF didnt apply a special mod a such they bought forward a planned upgrade as there own mod package. It may sound slightly pedantic but there is a difference

EFT doesn’t have poor range compared to other aircraft, and in AtA configuration more than most, but in AtG it will have less range than Rafale.

Completely agree Stand off weapons such as Stormshadow will enable the typhoon to perform strike missions but no Typhoon will never be a deep strike aircraft but then it was never intended to be.

Did you know Meteor seeker is a derivative from the Aster seeker which itself is a derivative from the MICA seeker ?

I thought it was I direct development of mica (as was ASTER). however my point wasnt aimed as a slight on MICAs abilities, but as a compromise WVR/BVR weapon it doesnt have the legs to match AMRAAM or other dedicated BVR missiles (perhaps why RAFALE was modelled with MICA not AMRAAM .
Not intended as a criticism you pays your money you take youre choice. (ASRAAM is disliked in some corners as the RAF wanted a longer ranged missile than sidewinder consequently it isnt quiet as agile as IRIS T etc).
The point is that simulation is moot and has no value at all except for propaganda. EFT should be a little less talk and a little more actions, then I’ll be happy to hear their claims. Until then, let’s all have a good day.

I Disagree taken in context by people who know and understand the principles behind it, it is probably a very good tool.
It should never have been released to EFT or the general public.

I think generally were in agreement. If we have any further discussion I propose we follow Tmors lead and either PM or start a new thread rather than continue to pollute the Rafale thread with Typhoon talk.

I really feel sorry for you that JOUST can’t be as neutral, balanced, realistic and up-to-date as the Swiss evaluation. But please, don’t call Kovy “hypocrit” just because you’re disappointed.

By the way, it’s a Rafale news thread.

Off Topic
Nic see my previous the Joust study itself is probably not an unreasonable set of results given that it was Typhoon+ meteor (a rerun with meteor equiped rafale and a non meteor equiped typhoon would probably swap the 2 aircrafts positions in the chart.

also worth noting that joust was nothing to do with the typhoon consortium.

Unfortunatly what has happened is that results have been taken out of context by Fanboys to become either typhoon = uber for typhoon fans
or that joust is propagander or typhoon has failed by its detractors.

like wise the swiss report has been used without context to attack grippen and by some typhoon.

On topic

Is there any word on progress for the OSF IR replacement and is India going its own way on this or will they operate the same system as the french forces.

Regards

Quote:

They might be of similar generation but the truth is “WE SIMPLY DON’T KNOW”. CAPTOR-E is an evolution of CAPTOR-M, I don’t know if it’s going to be that easy to replace or develop. I believe only Tranche 3 will come with the option to replace the front end with an AESA antenna. So obviously as of today we’ve no idea what that means. New architecture ? New power distribution system ? New computers ? How will they interfere with each other ? What kind of chips will be used ? How reliable are they ? What about the software (the most important issue IMO) ? Complex software require a lot of investment. Is the consortium ready to invest as much when most country that would be very interested for export are now gone ? We will only have some answer to these questions circa 2018, not before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindermyer
Additionally the only time a radar will work exactly as advertised is in a lab so its a bit moot to state its not quite real world.

We completely agree. I would had the only time a radar work as advertised is in PR publications.

[INDENT]Touche [/INDENT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindermyer
Well one could argue that it appears to be the other way around from the typhoon fans point of veiw.

I’ve never read a single publication from Dassault, Thales or anybody else saying the RBE 2 was better than Typhoon. Forum is something else. One could also say that you reap what you sow. If you spend more than 10 years claiming something that’s hardly true don’t be surprised if it comes back to bit you in the ****
At a quick glance I refer you to French Strategy and BW on his more Rabid days over at strategy page (although im sure he was just trying to wind up herald) I will hasten to add that although somewhat blindly devoted to Rafale he does concede typhoon has good points.

This is where I started the conversation today Im not aware that anyone has claimed that typhoons Radar is better than Rafales in anything but range.
I agree with youre previous regarding unknowns such as software and components and any EMI/EMC issues, but we have similar if not the same engineers, similar access to technology which is why im happy to assume similar capabilities. please note i dont catagorically state Typhoon Does have better range, I state that having a significantly bigger radar should bring an advantage in some areas. i will be horrified on Typhhoon if it doesnt as it would be poor engineering

The only criticism I’ve heard time and time again was mainly from ET fanboys, based on ET PR and the defence press in general. Such a post from 2009 resume the views of ET fanboys and the US/UK press that have been said time and time again for as long as I remember. Note the irony that at the exact same time the Swiss were writing a very different report…

released bits of Tech evaluations are not a good source to the layman as they tend to display x is better than y without context eg as you cited the swiss Typhoon scored badly on AESA because of risk.

Fanboys of all ilks are a problem, be they bashing other aircraft or over hyping/ being over sensitive to criticism of there own.

Lack of confidence in other capabilities or not, I don’t see a single competition were ET shined thanks to its superior, long range radar.

I refer you back to my previous about the whole package as we dont have access to technical evaluations (ignoring the selectivly edited Swiss). typhoon may well shine in the areas it was designed to, it may not shine where prospective customers require it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindermyer
1)Apples oranges Typhoon as you are so keen on pointing out still has a mechanical radar, which obviously does not have the same functional capabilities as thr rafales PESA .
It may still out range it or have other advantages.

Fact is range isn’t as important as it once was and certainly not enough to impress anyone.

I disagree but then again different airforces may disagree with 1 or both of us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindermyer
2 we dont actually know what the criteria were for the competitions so perhaps any advantage offered by the typhoon was considered superfluos and therefore not worth paying for.

Really ? Second in AtA only to the F-22, marvellous radar, marvellous high speed manoeuvrability, marvellous TWR, marvellous AAM, marvellous self protection suite, will eat Rafale for breakfast…

Marketing blurb but ignoring the obvious hyper bowl The Radar, High speed agility , TWR are all proven points

Yet the only constant in most of the recent competition was the Rafale. How come ? Rafale vs F-15, Rafale vs F-35, Rafale vs SH, Rafale vs ET…

But all of these competitions wanted a multirole aircraft perhaps rafale is simply a much better multi role aircraft (It Is) but this doesnt prove that typhoon isnt superior at A2A or has very poor range or cant drop bombs at all which is what some people appear to think.

And I do. A accept that Typhoon as of today is doing what it was designed to day as good as any F-15, Su-27 if not even better at time. However since I keep reading about ET superiority against any other aircraft but the F-22, I’ve to say well let’s see if that’s actually true… And it isn’t.

I suspect it is in some areas, but its how you apply hyperbowl.

However as I have said before this claim (Joust) was never for the Typhoon it was for typhoon and meteor in combination. I know it got misinterpreted by others and has been used as a stick by various fanboys of all ilks.

Rafale,s score was so low in the table as it was rafale/Mica.

If it was re-run today now that rafale will get meteor Rafale would be a lot higher up the table and a damn sight closer to Typhoon.