And I won’t mention the incredible amount of hair gel/glue you guys go for either!
That’s our national haircut and you should not be making fun of it!! đĄ


See that colour? :rolleyes:
Maybe if Israel was a bit more respectful of Syrian airspace they wouldn’t perceive a need for such weapons.
Maybe if Syria would stop allowing terrorists to reside in it, stop its politics in Lebanon; intrusions into its airspace would be far less likely.
Oeps,
Vreemde vertaling van mij is de oorzaak van het misverstand. Hij zit bij de koopvaardij en heeft stage gelopen op een bulkschip; china clay, pulp vervoeren etc vervoeren van Finland naar de VS dan naar Brazilie en zo weer terug; ook een keer naar Napels trouwens waar de Italiaanse havenarbeiders (met een kraan) de maagdelijk witte pulp in de modder op een hoop gooiden. Maar ja, ik ben zelf ook in Napels geweest en dat is Italie.
Bij hem was zoals gezegd geen bar aanwezig, hoewel de vrije tijdsruimte wel een DVD speler had en een grote collectie domme actiefilms. Toen hij weer thuis kwam had hij een heleboel baggerfilms bij zich die in Florida gekocht had om zich aan boord te vermaken. Hij was in de haven daar ook bijna gearresteerd omdat hij foto’s stond te maken van legertrucks die in de haven stonden te wachten Hij had uiteindelijk 9 man om zich heen: douane, havenpolitie en nog een dienst đ Hij was nogal bang geweest, vertelde hij toen ie later opbelde :diablo:
A friend of mine who is studying to be a marine officer returned just before X-mas from his first six months at sea as part of one of his two mandatory traineeships. He applied to Spliethoff for his traineeship and he was accepted immediately; later his found out why: in his opinion Spliethoff was the budget shipping company, their ships didn’t have a bar on board, only one tv and just one crew lounge (for officers and the rest of the crew) compared to more luxurious crew provisions with other companies. Not that he did not enjoy his first working experience (he will leave the end of January for his second tour), but hĂ© it can be better. :rolleyes:
The French Surcouf đ


But it is part of the US mothball fleet if remember it correctly.
Dank je Roel (Belg toch?)
Shame that the thread was closed. Even though this is an aircraft/navy forum someone (Laza) attacked me on my remarks on trade policy and started giving the intuitive (though empirically proven disastrous) reasons for a policy of import substitution and protectionism. Now, as an undergraduate of economics (and French :o) with a special interest in trade policy, that’s my turf!! However, I’ll stop about that now as it’s the wrong forum.
It is a shame that the NCIG forum on acig isn’t more active đ
About spending billions of dollors. Its Our money, you need to advice us based on your opinions? Where were you when we needed Billions of $ to feed the poor population when we got our freedom. On the contrary Gorshkov will deter your colonial tempremants.
This is laughable!!!! Last year we dutch people could hear on the news and read in the papers that India did no longer want to receive development aid and help coming from the Netherlands and other small developed countries simply because India felt that we were too small. Receiving aid from small countries could damage India’s national prestige as India feels it is becoming so superduper important that it has to behave itself arrogantly versus small nations, even if they are good willing. On the contrary, bigger countries like France could continue to donate to the benefit of the many deperately poor people in your country.
When you had your independence and you finished your little butcher, you went the way of socialism and the mistaken policies of import substitution and heavy protectionism. You simply chose the wrong side during the cold war. Furthermore, my country emerged ravished and heavily traumatised from the WW2 at that time and was fighting a colonial war in the Dutch East Indies; so we had other things to spend our money on. In those days we even received development aid under the Marshall plan.
The Netherlands has long abandoned its colonial ideology. We only retain several islands in the Caribbean that chose to stay with us, since they are so small that they cannot build a viable economy or state.
Why just take Maldives and Banglades. It can happen aywhere in IOR. And the Navy believes it Gorshy can handle it
Since you took these as example and that the Navy believes that is part of the problem. The airforce could cover these areas easily, but most likelt due to interservice rivalry the Navy wants to have their own planes to do it.
Its anybody’s guess Gorshkov alone won’t meet the defence needs. It takes a genious to tell that? IN needs 3 carriers. So tell me how do we suddenly build a 3 carrier force over night? It has to be in steps and Gorshy is first.
Well, why don’t you choose to build a decent carrier right away like Jonesy also mentioned. The AG has to be totally rebuild and will still remain rather inadequate. In the mean time you could have started designing your own carrier or subsequently start building it. Why would you want to have a crappy carrier instead of none for some time (although it is rather speculative to postulate that the AG would be ready in shorter time than a small new build carrier). With your growing fleet of SU-30MKIs you could have easily covered the likely areas of operation of the old carriers in the mean time.
Here’s a similar diagram from the CdG:

To compare with the unknown loadout of the AG, the load out of the CdG (will) consist(s) off:
Actuellement :
-14 Super-Ătendard ModernisĂ©s.
-10 Rafale M F1 [10].
-2 E-2C Hawkeye.
-2 AS-365F Dauphin “Pedro”.
-2 SA-321G Super-Frelon.
-2 SA-330 Puma “RESCO” (dĂ©tachement ArmĂ©e de l’Air).
Prévisions (2010) :
-25-30 Rafale M/N (F2-F3).
-4 Super-Ătendard ModernisĂ©s (Standard 4/5).
-2 E-2C Hawkeye.
-2 AS-365F Dauphin “Pedro”.
-1/2 NH-90 NFH.
-2 AS-532 Cougar Mk2+ (dĂ©tachement ArmĂ©e de l’Air).
As we all know, this ship wasn’t without troubles either. A summary can be read here if you’re proficient in French or able to withstand babelfish:
http://frenchnavy.free.fr/ships/aircraft-carrier/charles-de-gaulle/deboires.htm
So many aircraft seems a bit optimistic especially considering numbers of 12-16 MiG-29Ks being mentioned as ordered. We all know the pic below, but I don’t know whether it is realistic:

We need to scare that piddly navy of yours?
Coming all the way to the Northsea then?
Vaiar,
Why do aircraft carriers need to be used to scare? Power projection = scaring people? That rusty bucket with a squradren of miG-29 coupled with a good fleet can be put to a good effect. It could stop an effective coup in africa or any other nation. Hell lot of peace keeping it can perform. Remember we put our navy to check LTTE and mercenaries in Maldives. remember we are patrolling high seas to keep trade intact. Remembre IN was called on to guard âWorld Economic Forum Meetingâ, held at Maputo. Don’t forget the relief work by the warships in Tsunami affected areas. INS Vikrant was used to liberate Bangladesh out or tyranny. It has played a good will ambassodor to Asia. Its not necessary that an aircraft carrier needs to be used to be used in ange
Scaring the other side which whom you are in disagreement of the consequences resulting from possible non-cooperation is of course essential for power projection. Strange to question that even though I did not speak of scaring anyone, but about this purchase being more a symbol of nationalism (erased by the moderator) than of being essential to the Indian Navy. I really doubt this small a squandron of aircraft could without support of other forces (primordially large numbers on the ground) could do anything in Africa. What could such aircraft possibly do in a chaos ridden situation of coup except making nice recon flights to provide some intelligence? For flight operations on the Maldives you don’t need carrier based aircraft as that country is right around the corner viewed from India. Same story with Bangladesh. Rather peculiar to spend billions on a carrier just for being a good will ambassador, there are more cost-effective means to do that.
From the posted Force-article:
The Indian Navy-specific MiG-29K will thus enable the Admiral Gorshkov to be employed as a power projection carrier.
Apparently the better informed Force-journalists have more grip on reality.
A question: on who or where is India going to project power wth the handful of MiG-29Ks on its carrier in the future? Apart from some poor African country I can’t think of any country that is going to be impressed when there’s an old rusty carrier on their doorstep that can only manage to get a few MiGs in the air round the clock without any support like a decent tanker (yes, additional operational MiGs can indeed be wasted on buddy pod-duty) or AEW-aircraft.
Can you tell me what the reasoning is behind covering only the back arc with the SAM-system? Is this due to spacial constraints that allow only one radar to placed (strange design)? Budget constraints? The idea that the enemy only arrives from the back side or that in case of an enemy aircraft/missile arriving from the front we do have the time and/ or opportunity to make a quick turnaround?
Cute!!! Could you post that report by a former chief of the IN that says the AG is junk, Roel?