PitJust another thing.
Our aircrafts are called Su-30MK2, that’s all, not Su-30MK2V, nor Su-30MKV, neither any other designation…
Su-30MKV is no known designation here and should not be used!.
Some recent information.
From January till May, 8 aircrafts have been received (in fact the first two were received November 30 2006, the next 2 were received December 26 2006, and the third and fourth lot were received in April 2007), flying training operations have been made from January and till May, have acumulated a total of 700 hours finishing the first stage of flying training for a total of 20 pilots (that includes WSO but is not known the pilot/WSO allocation, neither the flying hours allocation) and basic qualification of 6 flying instructors.
2 weeks ago (May 26) the first squsdron (Escuadrón de Caza Nº 131) was activated in a display where all the eight aircrafts flew.
Funny some of the top pilots of the Group are ex F-16 pilots (CO is last Chief of Operations of Group-16 and current Chief of Operations is the last US trained F-16 pilot from the original lot)
PitBTW RWS radar mode range vs TWS radar mode range on US vs Soviet fighters…
Did you know that Su-27’s N-001 (RLPK-27 radar system) didn’t have a proper “raw radar mode” (think about a basic RWS mode) but just a TWS mode? (they call it SnP with three options, ZPS, PPS and Avt, changing PRF for different target fliyng profiles).
In the N-001 every time a new target appears on the display is being followed on the SnP mode and its course, speed, Vc and threat assesment is calculated and displayed to the pilot…
Funny as you see it, N-001, Zaslon and AWG-9’s TID displays are very similar!…
In N-001E (export version, local version should be exactly the same) they’re basically three radar modes, SnP, KVO and RNP.
KVO is quasi-continous radar mode of operations and provides a “silent” (in fact, discrete) range-information for support of IRST operations (OEPS-27), the system works in such a fashion that IRST provides angular information of the contact and radar provides from time to time range information in very short pulses.
RNP is illumination mode or STT in american style.
DNP provides discrete transmission of MCGU and could be considered a different mode, , it provides information for SARH launchs, up to two R-27R/ER missiles could be launched at the same targets, those missiles enjoy MCGU…succesive launches would not enjoy MCGU.
PitBush is an idiot. He could have approved the F-16ACE upgrade deal to LM/ELTA and he would still have kept his share of control over Chavez. Another mistake of his was putting Swedes under pressure when Chavez approached SAAB for Gripens. Now he has Flankers at Colombian doorstep with no control over their operations, whatsoever.
That is what happens if you know nothing but pushing hard your interests thru by force.
We never approached SAAB for Grippen, what we used to buy from Sweden was SAM equipment (RBS-70, Giraffe radar and associated) and AT equipment (Carl Gustav and AT-4), and that was mainly from Bofors…they’re now pleaged to the embargo.
PitAt that test (Nov. 21 1973) the targets were at 50 Nmiles. Tracking 6 targets (two of them 600 m close) at 50 Nmiles and guiding simultaneously 6 missiles in SARH mode against them, it was quite an achievement. So were the 5 hits. Do you know any other test similar with this one performed in 1973?The MiG 31 was a nice achievement of the Soviet industry. Its speed and Zaslon radar made it a formidable foe.
AESA is a huge step ahead BTW, even compared with PESA, since PESA has one TWT (as any mechanical scan radar).
As for AWG 9 working only to gain control of someone’s oil deposits, I don’t know what conflict you refer to (Gulf War 1991 may be?). However, the AWG 9 was used in anger extensively in Irak-Iran war.
What do you understand by “SARH guidance” and “MCGU” (Mid-Course Guide Update) Aurcov?…
Because you have to understand that when you do TWS with AWG-9 and so you enjoy multiple-fire options for the Buffalo, your scan-patterns zones are constrained in bars and azimuth (two options, +/-40º az/2 bars with full scan every 2 seconds and +/-20º with 4 bars every 2 seconds)…the display is callibrated to 90nm in these modes.
That’s because the radar computer logic’s memory needed for compelling a full history track for every contact assesed, and such sending the MCGU towards the rear-facing receiver on AIM-54A/C.
The INS/MCGU/SARH/ARH is used only and only in the PDSTT mode when you’re doing long range fires…that’s how you get the wonderful range shots, you can’t get those numbers with TWS or other multiple fire modes.
SARH homing means the DSQ-21 (hope i get the name right, I’m writting from memory) “radar dish” is receiving reflections from the AWG-9 CWI transmitter, and such capability can only works for one missile a-time because the speed of the dish of the AWG-9 is not enough for mantaining a quasi-continous illumination of the remainder targets…
AWG-9 have 19 PD frequency channels (compared to 16 in most other fighter’s radars) for avoiding mutual interference, and 6 and 5 different illumination frequencies for AIM-54 and AIM-7. This doesn’t means you have the posibility to fire at the same time 5 AIM-7 at different targets (being those AIM-7E4 or AIM-7F/M) but that you can fire one missile a piece to different targets (or same target) from 5 Tomcats located very near from each other without mutual interferences…the AIM-54 frequencies are different allocated so that you have a different MCGU frequency channel.
Pit“On 18 August of 1993 was carried out a series of flying experiments on the interception of target at maximum range. In the course of the first of them the radio-controlled target, which flies at the height of 10.300 m with a velocity of 189 meters per second, was locked on by interceptor MiG-31 (flight altitude 8480 m, velocity – 669,3 meters per second) at the range if 319,5 kilometers the launch of rocket R-33 (successfully destroyed target) was carried out at the distance 228 kilometers.”
That should be the famous R-37 test, not an R-33.
No, K-37 “famous” test was made in 1994 and the article is pretty concise in what it talks about, furthermore the ranges involved are different.
First sucessful launch of a K-37 missile from MiG-31M prototype was made in October 1993…two months after this test.
PitThis could help.
Flight tests of SUV “Zaslon”
Vladimir Ilin
“Aerospace review”, №5, 2005, pages 42-43
Control system of armament (SUV) “Zaslon”, worked out for the fighter-interceptor MiG-31 – unique article, whose many characteristicss, until now, are not exceeded on the foreign analogs.
Characteristicss of complex maximally high for their time were to a considerable extent achieved due to the carrying out of multiple, now and then completely large-scale (as it is organizational, so also materially) flight tests and experiments. Some of these experiments, until now, are unique.Should be noted the the fact that similar experiments, directed toward a increase in the possibilities of aviation complex, they were conducted also after reception MiG-31 for the armament. Let us pause only at the individual, most significant development stages of complex, carried out BY NIIP im. V.V Tikhomirov and OKB A. I. Mikoyan in the course of flight tests MiG-31.
On 15 February of 1978 in Akhtubinske took place not [povtorjonnyj], until now, not by some foreign aviation complex flying experiment on the simultaneous detection, the capture and the accompaniment of 10 aerial targets, which fly by wide front (on the order of 150 km) at different heights.
Interceptor MiG-31 executed flight at height 5000 m. of target were distributed to two groups. The first group flew at the altitude of from 8400 m to 9600 m, the second – from 1400 m to 2600 m. thus, in one experiment was evaluated the work SUV “Zaslon” both according to the targets, which fly against the background free space (sky), and along the targets, which fly (relative to interceptor) the against the background underlying (terrestrial) surface. The maximum detectable range of targets (had EPR on the order of 16 m2) was 210 kilometers.
Target Number-Distance of detection/automatic target tracking-Target Altitude, m
1 141,3 1400
2 162,2 9000
3 136,5 2000
4 124,8 1700
5 131,5 2600
6 137,8 9300
7 144,3 8700
8 121,5 9600
9 112,2 2300
10 115,4 8400The total time of detection and tracking was 153,5 s. in this case the first seven targets were detected and tracked for 69,5 s. the time, spent directly on the procedure of the target of seven lock-ons, it composed 24,3 s , and 10 targets -49,05 s.
For the exclusion of the repeated target of one and the same lock-on and, as a result, “recycling” of the work of system was introduced the comparison of the coordinates newly locked on and inhibit to their repeated capture.
It must be noted, that the possibility of repeated lock on and tracking one and the same target in one flying experiment made it possible to estimate the load of calculating processes and to gather statistics according to the observation of the signals of target (mode for the experimental works) without the organization subsequently of the expensive flights of 10 of targets.
The creation of the phased antenna array (FAR) for SUV “Zaslon” made it possible not only to realize the multipurpose work of radar complex, but also to work out the application of mode of the so-called “consecutive feeler” for a increase in the range. In this case the analysis is conducted during two-four elementary temporary time (position of the ray FAR [ostajotsja] invariable). Lower and upper thresholds in each time are different. With the excess of the upper limit in each of 180 sectors of Doppler frequencies is developed the signal “target”. Consecutive feeler made it possible to obtain the gain in the range of detection of aerial targets, component approximately 20-25%. In this case entire procedure of consecutive detection is realized in special analog-digital processor.
The realization of this mode in the up-to-date digital signal processors is problematic because of the insufficient speed and the need organizing the special calculating process.
On 28 August of 1978 MiG-31 it successfully destroyed by four simultaneously released rockets R-33 of four radio-controlled airborne target.
On 18 August of 1993 was carried out a series of flying experiments on the interception of target at maximum range. In the course of the first of them the radio-controlled target, which flies at the height of 10.300 m with a velocity of 189 meters per second, was locked on by interceptor MiG-31 (flight altitude 8480 m, velocity – 669,3 meters per second) at the range if 319,5 kilometers the launch of rocket R-33 (successfully destroyed target) was carried out at the distance 228 kilometers.
Perhaps, the experiment, carried out on 21 April by 1994 became the most effective flying experiment, which entirely demonstrated the possibility of aviation complex, on the simultaneous fire of four aerial targets. As the latter were begun to operate the specially equipped fighters MiG-21 (guided from the surface control centers), that had relatively low RCS and high maneuverability.
The first target flew at the altitude of 7100 m, the second – 1720 m, the third – 2470 m, the fourth – 6230 m. the sequence of the fire of targets was determined by the program of computing system MiG-31: 4-2-3-1. All targets, which maneuvered on the course, were annihilated in several ten kilometers from the fighter-interceptor.
Thus, SUV “Zaslon” under the conditions, maximally approximating real, confirmed its unique characteristicss. It should be noted that and today aviation complex MiG-31, created still in 1968-1981 years, did not drain its evolutionary possibilities. Its modernization will make it possible to substantially increase combat potential and will attach to it the characteristicss, which correspond to requirements for the fighter-interceptors XXI of century.
For the creation SUV “Zaslon” and its modifications of 196 coworkers of NIIP they were rewarded with orders and medals of USSR.
But was begun development SUV “Zaslon” in 1968 at first it it advanced complicatedly and difficultly. All technical decisions were new: FAR, quasi-continuous emission, multipurpose work, group activities and other this now, 37 years later, they are steels customary, clear and as by itself understanding, necessary in each new development. In this case it is important to note that the fundamental technical decisions were immediately selected correctly, but their practical realization was extremely difficult task.
In the process of the work on SUV “Zaslon” was added the creative strategic formation of the specialists of different organizations. Implication to the solution of priority problem, scale of works and highest level of scientific and technological tasks drew together the specialists of the firm of the developer of – NII instrument manufacture, series plant “Leninist” and the set of enterprises and services of science, industry and client.
But by the meaningful result of development SUV “Zaslon” was creation in NIIP of scientific technical school for the development of antenna systems and radar with electronic control of ray, capable of today conducting the most complex and foremost developments both for the aviation and for the antiaircraft missile systems.
Pitwhat manual? Do you know how a monopulse design looks? You need at least two feeder horns, and all the radars above only has one. Furthermore, the antenna revolves as it emits, so it takes readings from the different positions as it turns then compares these readings for angular resolution. That’s conical scan.
You’re confusing sub-reflector movement as it scans the sky (the flat plane dish that moves inside the two-mirror squeme of the twist cassegrain aerial) with the conical movement at an exact interval of the ConScan typical set…
So it works with every twis cassegrain set, be it central feed horn (like RDM or Sapfir-23E) or off-set feed horn (N-001/019), or even the hyperboloid Cassegrain set of AI24…
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/70/hyperboloidcassegrainsx0.jpg
Twist Cassegrain antenna of the type used on Foxhunter. A fixed feed (A) emits polarised radar energy forwards. The radar hits a hyperboloid sub-dish (B), with embedded wires parallel to the plane of polarisation, which reflects the radar signal. It then hits the paraboloid main reflector (C) where the polarisation is twisted by 90 degrees by wires arranged at 45 degrees to the plane of polarisation. The radar signal then bounces forward again, but due to its changed polarity now passes straight through the sub-dish.
PitYes I know how a monopulse radar works, and indeed did the Russians, so back from the times of Sapfir-23E…
Please…READ:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,25.0.html
Please SEE:
(From technical manual of Sapfir-23E, courtesy of MrDetonator)…
Next you will have to explain the world, how did your “ConScan” radar did guide your Inv Monopulse SARH seeker in the name of god…:rolleyes:
PitWell thats the question, I know that the Su-27SM uses the N001VEP and the that the SKM variant uses a slightly different version with the same designation. Apparently the Pero was offered to China for the Su-30MKK3 but that they chose the Phazotron Zhuk-MSE before the entire project was canned. I have never found a reference to any flanker flying with the Pero which I find curious as you can supposedly just plug it into an existing N001 set thus making it a fairly effective and cheap upgrade.?
Lord of the seas, the radar that the Su-27SM uses is the N-001V an upgraded variant of the N-001VEP that the Su-30MK2 uses.
It introduces an improved DSP (Baget 55.04.06) and improved digital low frequency receiver N-001-03DO allowing it a series of new modes:
a) Long range search mode (not disclosed how it’s done, maybe it uses HPRF without FM linear ramp like VS modes) allowing target detection at 135-150km in the frontal hemisphery (target RCS 3m2).
b) NCTR of targets.
c) RAID assesment modes
d) Detection and stable tracking of hovering helicopters.
This technology was not allowed to China (as per Pyotr Butowski article at Air International, January 2004), but no idea if it was allowed to other customers of the radar (Venezuela).
Su-27SKM uses a different designation for the N-001VEP, its name is RLPK-27VEP1, maybe the “N name” is N-001VEP1.
PitFrom one of the technical manuals of Sapfir-23E (that uses similar class of antenna that N-001/019 and family)…
The Sapfir-23E uses the mono-pulse technique to track a single target. Such a radar system consists of two parabolic antennas (moving, fixed) and the four-cone T/R element. In this system, each returning radar pulse provides target pointing information by being focused at the antenna onto a group of four-cone T/R elements.
Description of the tracking process: After pushing the „Zachvat“ button, the radar proceeds an additional search in the antenna position where the target has been found. During this additional search the scan zone shrinks to ±8º in azimuth and ±52` in elevation. If the target signal is present, the antenna performs angular tracking of the target and the radar range-finder is switched on. The range-finder searches the target in the 9km range zone. If the target is within the 9km zone, the antenna performs range tracking of the target. The SEI indicator changes its appearance. It is now showing the crosshair and the circle guidance indicator instead of selection lines (range zone). The radar is tracking the target. The tracking principle is based on summing the elevation, azimuth and the reference signal taken from the 4-cone receiver.
From MrDetonator post at ACIG.org…you can read more at Secretprojects forum.
PitTo do MTI you would need a monopulse antenna, with three or four emitting dipoles and the planar array set into 3 or 4 sectors of respective receivers. Slotted planar array easily fits this description, such as the Zhuk MSE, but the N001VEP uses a twist cassegrain antenna where angular resolution is resolved by conical scan. Unlike monopulse, which emits four differently located signals to be received at four different parts of the antenna, conical scan turns around the emitter horn located offset and near the circumference of the array, then reads and compares the recieved results as the disk is turned around.
Sorry, N-001-01A (the antenna block of N-001 and its family) is of monopulse design…please READ the manual, only a monopulse design allows the TOJ (Track-on-Jam) features that both N-001 and N-019 allows…and heck…even the Flogger radars (Sapfir-23, N-003, N-008, etc).
MTI is used on N-001VEP and have nothing to do with being a slotted array or wathever…even Orion-A radar on Su-24M Fencer-D uses such a mode…
PitСамолет Су-30МКМ («многоцелевой, коммерческий, малазийский») является новейшей версией широко известного многофункционального истребителя Су-30МКИ, имеет аналогичный планер, современный двигатель с управляемым вектором тяги (УВТ) и новейшую цифровую систему управления. Модификация МКМ отличается от МКИ составом бортового оборудования. Французская фирма ТHALES поставляет индикатор на лобовом стекле (HUD), навигационный сенсор NAVFLIR и контейнер лазерного подсвета (LDP Damocles). Система радиоэлектронного противодействия (РЭП), современный радар с фазированной антенной решеткой, способный одновременно вести 15 и атаковать 4 цели, оптико-локационная система с лазерным дальномером поставляются ведущими российскими предприятиями.
The system radio-electronic counteractions (RAP), a modern radar with the phased antenna lattice, capable simultaneously messages 15 and to attack 4 purposes, optical-location system with a laser range finder are delivered by the leading Russian enterprises
http://pilot.strizhi.info/2007/05/27/3776
There is a source for the Russian ECM equipment.
Have to correct myself, what I thouh it was an optical opening it’s indeed not an optical opening but some antenna…
PitRead at a page that it uses a new Russian made data processor…wathever that means.
And a Russian ECM system.
Comms are probably english (remember the “english cryptologic system” it was anounced).
Passive EW is south-african (SAAB Avitronik MSWS system)
Nav Imaging Infrared and targetting infrared system is french (NavFlir and Damòcles)…it seems NavFlir is internal to the aircraft (no pod), or so you can see a suspicious optical glaring down on the nose (just down of the IRST ball)
Thales announced also in the past LIMA, that Su-30MKM will carry Reco-NG system.
All altogether a beatiful aircraft…
PitNo, there is no relationship, Pero antenna was used temporaly for initial tests of Irbis back then, today it uses a normal phased array aerial derived from Skat-M.
PitPero aerial was test flown onboard a prototype of the Su-30MK (504 AFAIR) being part of the first prototype of the N-035 “Ibis” two years ago…today the first Su-35 prototype (509) have received the first full set N-035 Irbis with a much different antenna.
Sign In
