h177Originally posted by matt
This whole thing about designation of 4th or 5th, i think we need another thread on it.Would anyone else consider the B-2 a fifth Gen Aircraft?
but it doesnt posses AESA or Supercruise I think the internal electronics to increase survivability also matter, the layout and MMI also must count for something I mean there are soo many things that we do not know when judging an Aircraft.
E.g.
I have always thought that the best was to help the pilot with stand high G’s (other then the flight suite) is the angle and position of the seat, near reclined as opposed to the upright. Other things like assistance to the pilot through verbal audio cues.
Decrease in Pilot work load through clear thought out MMI. etc etc.
P.s.
It would be interested to know what kind of effect the plasma has on the L/D of the Aircraft. the boundary layer seperation should be affected a bit with the plasma.
B-2 is bomber not a fighter so the criteria is different. Making such a big stealth aircraft is not a small achievement considering it was built at a time when most of the fighters didnot have even fourth generation qualities.
h177Originally posted by matt
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3343621.stmyour trying to convince the wrong person.. you need to talk to the CIA and the US government.
So you mean that NK cannot make a missle or a bomb with out Pak help. It was Pak that IRBM missle and copies of IGLA missle from NK and make GHURI IRBM and ANZA MANPAD from them. Media always does not present the trues picture. And forget about those Middleastern countries they cannot make any thing untill it is a complete system transferred to them along with advisors.
Use this logic
F-16 were embargoed in 1990 because PAK did not have capability of putting Warhead on Billistic missle. Aircraft was the only way of doing that. All PAK Billistic missles are based on China or NK designs. The warhead design for billistic missles came from the same sources. So whats the point for NK to get old uranium based bomb design from Pak which it cannot mount it on its billistic missles.
h177Originally posted by matt
Erm sorry to burst ur bubble but, the CIA caught them laoding up the missiles.As for complete system.. that would depend on what the actual deal was between Pakistan and Libya/Iran.. If the machinary and tooling is their then they only need the blue prints and advice. not complete systems.
your grasping at straws when even your own premier has sold out your scientist and is making them into scape goats.
Pakistan has bought missle from NK it is obvious but you were implying the other way around.
h177Originally posted by matt
Eighties? NK did not get nuke material in the 80’s a PAF C130 was not caught by CIA sats in the 80’s with missiles.Iranians and Libya have names Pakistan as supliers using the same designs that were stolen and later modified by AQ KHAN.
So do you think that i am that fool that i didnot read current news reports. NK had in agreement with US since 1994 not to process its fuel rods which they breached. So it means they had the technology before. And they are quite capable of building what ever they want. C-130 can go for many different purposes. One can even use a commercail airline if some thing is to be hide. And on Libya and Iran i don not give any worth to them untill complete system is transferred to them.
h177Originally posted by PLA
Afghans? You mean those Taleban freaks that shot women in soccer stadiums? They are not worth menioning here. Glad some are under earth. They produced heroin and erased civilisation for their religion… I still try to find out which religions allows human to becom worser then animals…
You only see the brighter side of Arabs. The Bamiyan Buddhas which was a historical heritage for centuries was destroyed under some Arab influence(PYRAMIDS in Egypt are still there to make money what a hypocricy). The Kabul Museum, the Fruit gardens in north of Kabul. The Afghan people reaction after liberation. but these all are off topic discussion.
h177Originally posted by PLA
We have to lock cause someone dares to tell something that is not favouring Israel? All that you mentioning as an excuse is the reaction towards how Israel treats others… Please shoot some stone throwing childrens cause they may not like your Merkave that is shooting holes in their houses… Is there a ban of critisizing Israel cause WW2? There are many more killings on earth… Get used to that. And yes zionism is racism. It puts jews above everything else… That is a definition of racism… Get used to that. No wonder that most of the world thinks that Israel is the most dangerous nation on earth only zionists think it is different… If you have the guts then eract with sanity not with shouting or bullets.
I think you are too harsh on Israel policy. You forget to mention that Afghans put Arabs in Containers and there are reasons for it.
h177Originally posted by PLA
No I don’t believe that. Why don’t you find out the very reason for that?
Whatever is the reason it is history now. Kamal attaturk was forced to disband publicly Turkish rule.
h177Originally posted by Sami
Okay, you are completey missing my point and I can’t waist anymore of my time.
I am not missing your point. The reason they signed up for NPT is that they cannot make it other wise they have oil and they can better with stand economic sanctions.
h177Originally posted by Sami
You do realize the diffrence between selling a nuclear reactor and giving the technology for a centrifuge.No offence, dude. I do appreciate you sticking up for your country, but it is pretty obvious that Pakistan has been very irresponsible when it comes to nuclear technology.
Here is what a google search returned:
http://news.google.com/news?num=30&hl=en&edition=us&q=cluster:www%2edailytimes%2ecom%2epk%2fdefault%2easp%3fpage%3dstory%5f22%2d12%2d2003%5fpg1%5f2Some more links that talks about very recent involvments:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/23/opinion/23TUE1.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/22/international/asia/22STAN.html?pagewanted=all&position=
Why if you have trained scientist and nuclear reactor you cannot make it unless you are afraid or incompetent. Plutonium based bombs are lighter and can be put on Billistic missle warhead quite easily.
h177Originally posted by PLA
Not recognizing Israel was not wise. But it should not defend Israeli occupation at this moment.They were not freed by the west… C’mon… They were used and exploited… Don’t come up with that excuse. The Japanese were the first to see that not only western nation could win a fight. Western nation were allways conquering and exploiting… Just look at the Netherlands… Started exploiting Indonesia and intruduced slave markets in the world… Such a small country but they did it not for helping these nations. Just like the Brits (commonwealth), Italy, Spain, Portugal etc etc…
There is a reason that all non western societies are not offensive. They are relaxed and not capitalistic. Do not forget that the weapons are allways frontrunning the technology. No wonder they are not the frontunners in techworld… But I hope you ar enot only a materialistic and unrelaxed person… We are here to look beyond that. Exploiting the earth is not the way… Wow… This could be a Greenpeace commercial…
But grow up… The only reason one is willing to take risk is profit…
Cheers.
So you dont believe that British defeated the Turks along with Germany in first world war for what ever British motivation may be. The Turks considered it as stabbing in the back so they did what was in their interest at that time and is still not renouncing it.
h177Originally posted by Sami
The incompetence of the ones at the receiving end, does not acquit Pakistan of its complicity. And for that matter it looks like NKorea did make something out of what ever it got.
NK has a nuclear program since 1970s and has scientist traind in China and Russia. NK can built A-bombs from both Plutonium and Uranium. Russia is also building a reactor for Iran and Training the Scientist.
h177Originally posted by Sami
Hmmm, whom should I believe NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal or a guy with a handle h177 on an internet forum? Tough choice.And somehow it is okay if it was done in the 80s?
why they are giving dates some different. The middleman for URENCO is the same from Dubai. The point is that they cannot built it without complete system transferred to them.
h177Originally posted by Sami
Yeah, I guess you are right. But I really wonder what is worse, the Pakistani govt peddaling nuclear technology or the scientists being able to sell it on the side. But if you ask me, it is time for a clean up, the only diffrence is if it should be done from the ground level or 30000 ft.
Your not understanding my posts. Unless it is a complete bomb for which saudis may be interested. They cannot make it any thing form technology. They have all the money and access to Russia and still are years away.
h177Originally posted by PLA
Who made them dictatorships or sattelite states? Who made the leaders rich and dictatorial? Who armed them to kill eachother? And now it is only there to make it democratic? Wow… which dimension is this? Just beam me down…
You should remember one thing that these Arab countries didnot gain independence by themselves from the Otoman turks the British empire and to certain extent Frech help them and in the absence of any leadership and in return for independence those kings were installed. Obviously you can disagree with their choice at that time.but these were tribal societies without education and Turkey was i think the first muslim country recognizing Israel.
h177Originally posted by PLA
So that is why they use war cause we are to dumb to understand…? Or is it just oil, wealth or power? Did you see wmd? Oeps. very difficult question and we do not hav einfo on that. Let us believe MI5 that copy pastes internet… 😀
It has i thing nothing to do with WMD unless you sell them ready made warhead they cannot built any thing. It is about establishing democracy and free market economy unlike command economy. These 22 Arab countries GDP is even less than Spain even with oil.
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