h177Originally posted by SabreAce
Hahahahahahhahaaa…..are you writing this BS on purpose or are you really that dumb?An F-7PG is not armed with anything of 20-30 km range. Even if you detect a big Flanker at the max advertised 72 km uplook range for the APG-66, you’ll need to track him to provide midcourse updates. That’s typically 50-70% of the detect range, assuming he’s flying in a straight line. Where’s the claimed 120 km for your H-4 missile then? You really should’nt eat up everything your country tells you.
Now this is weird. You refuse to believe basic geography while everything pak newspapers say is true I suppose?
As for the steaming India vs Pakistan debate, IMHO this is’nt really the place. Pakistan can balance out all of india’s superiority in numbers, equipment, training, experience blah blah with simple nuclear weapons. If you think the IAF is under less pressure because the PAF is 20 times weaker, think again. They have to go hunting MRBMs.
APG-66 search range is around 80 mile and tracking range you can put half of it and that is still enough.
h177Originally posted by PhantomII
h177 you conveniently forget the F-4….as does EVERYONE when they talk about Japan’s military.Japanese F-4’s are equipped with all of the same weapons (and then some) that the F-15 and F-2 fleets are fitted with.
AIM-7, AIM-9, AAM-3, ASM-1, ASM-2, GCS-1, Mk-82, JM117, RL-4, etc.
That’s quite irritating that people always do that….
The F-4 will be in the JASDF for quite a while so why leave it out of any equation?
F-15 name is so dominant that after that it is very difficult to pick another fighter.
h177Originally posted by SabreAce
Flame?1. How can the PAF have a BVR missile with a range that’s greater than even the detect range of all the fighter radar it operates? I suppose midcourse updates will not be needed. 😀
2. How can a bomb also be a missile and a BVRAAM?
3. This is the first time I hear this BS about “rogue” south african scientists.
4.Why is this kind of ahem,…weirdness, always restricted to pakistani threads?
Quite frankly, it’s the pakistanis who should be banned. In the usual shouting matches, atleast the indians know some facts and technical knowledge.
1.Detection range of F-16 and Mirage radar is an excess of 100Km. No body launches missles at maximum range. Fro BVR missle the launch range is usually around 20 to 30 KM even F-7PG can do it.
2.A missile is a bomb.
A bomb is not necessarily a missile
3.These Scientist issue was brought by an India person who claimed that he went to a Denel representative and received a personal assurance regarding non transfer of technology to PaK.
4.Now where is your technical knowledge.
h177Originally posted by Wolverine
care to explain? this is just testing. the more you do the better.
if this statement is correct then there will be no end this missle testing and it will never enter actual service.
h177If it is an independent island than it does not have any chance against Japan on its own. i don’t think they can face F-15 and F-2 joint attack.
h177Originally posted by Magician
This is very confusing, IN has already signed contract for 17 barak missile systems with the Isrealis,also a modified version called the super Barak is under development to take on super sonic Ashms so where does Trishul stand today?
It takes years to know the Actual success of Indian development project, So one have to wait untill barak is out of service.
h177LCA looks like a FLAT BED
h177Originally posted by Wolverine
ah it seems the village idiot is again at it harping the LCA is not indian song. what a looser.then ofcourse this thread which happens to be laughable at the very most. first look at the soruce and everything becomes clear. but to some delusionals here it looks liket he holy grail of credibility and they all seem to go around dancing with joy. they finnally have a magical and secretive weapon capable of swating the IAF out of the sky 😀
this magic weapon sure looks good. just let the source talk 😀 then ofcourse the fact that it is so advanced that they did only 3 tests (and it took them 1 yr to do them BTW). did i mention there are two of these bolts of zues in PAF as of now?
120km range :rolleyes:…………a rather big weapon no?
Of course they cannot put the entire history of a weopon in one news item. it took almost a decade of effort and it Air to ground weopon.
h177Originally posted by PhantomII
Lol………the day the PAF has BVR I’ll move to Pakistan and enlist.And 120 km? Lol Lol and Lol again.
This topic is such a joke.
The PAF won’t have a BVR capability until the JF-17 arrives with the SD-10.
d
Then you should enlist now because there are some BVR missles on Mirage but Public evidence is not available. PAF does not believe in some half baked BVR missles.
h177Is it Indigenous?
India’s LCA
India has spent over one and half billion dollars since 1983 (of which approximately 35 per cent was allocated towards payment for foreign avionics equipment and consultancy fees) on the ambitiously challenging and ab intio development of the Light Combat Aircraft. Dr Kota Harinarayan and Dr KG Narayanan were the main architects of the DRDO project and both have left for better pastures, after struggling with the project for over 20 years. More than 50 Indian research and production agencies are involved in the project, which had to tide over sanctions imposed by the USA in 1998.
The LCA programme is severely slowed down and becoming more expensive and less promising by the day, unless, as is the view of many experts, some radical collaboration is attempted with an experienced aircraft manufacturer. From its very inception, the Indian DRDO scientists kept declaring over-optimistic target dates to gain both funding and customers, keeping the IAF and the Navy attempts to monitor the progress at bay.
The Government has now sanctioned a series production of six LCAs at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., possibly to ensure service participation and funding from the Air Force budget. The LCA programme is steered by the Aeronautical Development Authority, Bangalore. It has so far achieved 50 flying hours and speeds of 610 Kmph through 12 flight tests on a Technology Demonstrator aircraft (TD1), a 30 minute maiden flight by TD2 on 6 June 2002 piloted by Wing Commander Tarun Banerjee, and a few other flights.
The first two experienced test pilots Wing Commanders R Kothiyal and R Nambiar have left the project to further their service careers having spent a decade on the LCA. The test flight preparation is a tedious and expensive activity. The ADE validates the control laws by the Minibird and Ironbird test rigs at Bangalore. It also does development work on the FCS and other systems, at Calspan Buffalo in USA and BAe.
It is now accepted that the small, light weight, delta configuration, tail less LCA design is the smallest unstable fly by wire platform ever tested, and TD 2 is due to attempt the challenging supersonic flight. Fingers in Bangalore remain crossed.
The 8.5 ton tail-less composite airframe fighter plane is fitted with equipment from Ericsson/Ferranti (multi-mode radar), Martin Marietta (flight controls), General Electric (F404-F2J3 turbofan with reheat), BAe (control law consultancy), Alenia (CFC wing panels), Honeywell (Inertial Navigation System and ring laser gyro), Sagem, Sextant, Martin Baker (ejection seats), Moog (actuators) and many other foreign and Indian suppliers who have been mainly associated with the project for the technology demonstrators.
h177Originally posted by ScreaM
PLA again dreaming boy, the SU-30MKI’s are in the air:D
Your best fighters vintage F-16A’s can’t do a damn thing about the SU-30’s. Al Khalid is a useless tank, a MBT-2000 knockoff. India currently has 300T-90’s and has plans to build 1000T-90’s so any advantage you claim that Pakistani armor has is neutralized. If Pakistan tries to invade India using armor:rolleyes: they will have to dig graves from Lahore to LOC. India has a huge advantage in air, and Pakistan needs to defend its armor in case of a thrust into India. Talking about those useless Al Khalid, the lack of good education and number of PhD’s and scientist which Pakistan produces one wonders if all those so called Ghauri’s, Ghazi’s etc are Pakistani missiles. All are imported from N.Korea, China and painted in GREEN(Pakistani specialty painting:p )When I posted on the thread I replied in context to the H-4/-2 missiles but the Darth Lord (h177) posted all nonsensical pieces of information etc. So what if China has better co-operation with Russia, India enjoys better relations with Russia than China:D
China will threaten Russia in the future because of its close border and China’s need for natural resources. Russia has lots of natural resources and a tiny population, and is threatened by China not India. India has been a Russian ally since 1960’s and its not going to change, get that through your thick skull. HAHAHA China and Russia signed a new deal as you stated h117 but has Russia offered China its Akula-II’s or its Tu-22 bombers. Russia is helping India build its ATV which is claimed by Russian sources to be an identical replica of Severodvinsk-class. Have you heard reports of Russia giving China design’s for its latest and most lethal nuclear subs?? Has Russia entered in joint partnerships with China in building cruise missiles?? Russia sold India the superior Su-30MKI whereas sold China the inferior Su-30MKK’s. India and Russia have started development on the PAK-FA according to the Indian prime minister, has China had any co-operation with Russia on such a project. Russia is just making these deals with China because it needs to sustain its arms industry. The Russian economy isn’t doing too well and any $$$ for Russia will be helpful.Talking about FC-1 what has Pakistan done other than contribute financially to the FC-1 project?? The LCA is far more indigenous than the FC-1 which China built for the PAF as a low cost fighter which their pathetic economy can afford (barely).
Anyway you seem to have lost touch with reality:cool: What China does is in the interest of China and not Pakistan, when push comes to shove China will leave Pakistan and tend to its own affairs. What happened in 1971 did China do anything to stop the breakup of Pakistan, the Indian armed forces where freely roaming in East Pakistan as China was watching quietly. In today’s world every country looks after its own interests and affairs. Sure China has a better economy than India but what does that have to do with Pakistan. Does Pakistan have $300billion reserves? Or is China just going to gift Pakistan everything it has because you said so.
India has untill now not put any money in PAK-FA check the Scramble magazine. Russia is waiting for the funds for 2004.
h177This thing seems important.
Moscow, Dec. 17 (PTI): Russia and China today signed a defence cooperation protocol under which Beijing will buy USD two billion worth of Russian arms and weapon systems and technologies next year.
The protocol signed by Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, and his visiting Chinese counterpart, Gen Cao Gangchuan, at the end of the regular session of the Sino-Russian Commission, sets the detailed schedule for defence interaction between Beijing and Moscow in 2004 to bring them closer to the 30-70 ratio between serially produced weapons and prospective defence technologies.
“In the year 2004 the amount of new contracts stipulated in the protocol and ongoing contracts would be equivalent to two billion dollars,” ITAR-TASS reported quoting Deputy Defence Minister Mikhail Dmitriyev.
“China occupies the number one place in Russia’s foreign military-technical cooperation and will retain this place in year 2004,” Dmitriyev said.
According to local media, Russia and China are all set to boost cooperation in sensitive defence areas including joint research and development of new weapon systems and their supply to third countries, a privilege so far enjoyed by India.
h177Why you people put something from Independent sources instead filling the threads with irrelevant information. This is a bit of reality from your own sources. I will only give credence to India missle capability when it actually use some thing untill than every thing is just on the paper.
http://www.indiadefence.com
Since the 1970s the Defence and Research Development Organistion (DRDO) championed the cause of “Made in India” philosophy and assured the Armed Forces that by the turn of the century Indian Armed Forces would be 60% self sufficient for its hardware needs. It reinvented the wheel in large projects to the determent of the Army This was the story of socialism and non-alignment, and the greatest sufferer was the Indian Army. The main battle tank Arjun failed to appear despite 15 years in the making, the T-72 tank could not get night fighting capability, the basic rifle for the soldier remained the 7.62 mm and in EW and in night vision devices and weapon locating radars (the Cymbiline was attempted for upgrade), the Army found itself deficient and with unprotected vehicles. Russia bailed India out, by supply of essential hardware, and the Bofors 155mm Howitzer saved the day in the 1999 Kargil war.
The Indian Army leadership has only now understood that it needs to plug the chinks in its own armour both for fighting terrorism and to have an upper hand in war, as analysts claim India has only a slight edge over Pakistan in conventional capability. It has therefore, imported T-90s tanks (with poor night fighting capabilities) and a host of other equipment and gone to the private sector for vehicles and other programmes. The DRDO is now collaborating with NPO Mach of Russia to jointly build the Brahmos missile. The DRDO has expertise and facilities, hence opportunities now exist to collaborate with Western defence companies for most unfinished projects. Herein lies opportunity for the Army’s modernization.
The IMF-led economic liberalization of India began in 1991 when its reserves fell to $1 billion. It resulted in neglect of the modernization needs of the Indian Army. As India’s Defence allocation hovered around 2.4% of the GDP, deficiencies to the tune of $ 3 billion resulted in the Army by 1999. Gen VP Malik, who was the Army Chief during the 1999 Kargil war, stated, “The army’s modernization programs are in a state of terminal illness. Our conventional combat edge over Pakistan has been eroding with every passing year. Unless additional funds are earmarked, future planning is not possible and the erosion in combat edge will soon become uncorrectable.” In hindsight it is apparent that when the Indian armed forces were mobilized on 18th December 2001 in operation Parakram (Valour), the Army was the first to realize how woefully short it was of spares, night vision equipment and lethal punch.
However, as strategic thought and long-sighted planning in India has been lacking, it has now come to light that the Army never received any verbal or written directives on the aims of this massive mobilization, which lasted till 16th October 2002. Most training and peace-time activities suffered. The Government cloaked Op Parakarm as coercive diplomacy, but it tired the Army which lost 728 lives, some 130 first in laying over 1 million mines and then in clearing them. Malik’s successor Gen S Padmanabhan had this to say on 9th November 2002. “Whenever there is a situation calling for (the) Army’s help, the latter’s role should be clearly defined to avoid confusion”, hinting the Army was not clear why it was mobilised. It is providential that India did not go to war. India’s political leadership was jolted out of its slumber in the stand off with Pakistan, which threatened to use nuclear weapons if its territorial integrity was transgressed. India realized that it had to honestly reexamine its nuclear weapon credibility.
h177Originally posted by SOC
:rolleyes:Antey-2500 anyone? More than sufficient for defending against tinpot dictator’s MRBMs and ICBMs…and I’d be willing to bet a good deal cheaper as well.
Then you are sure to lose this bet. Japan want to save itself not destroy. These Old trucks donot look good in Japanese inventory. Japan need something more polish, less pollutant and free from maintenance hassles.
h177Originally posted by troung
“Well, if the H-2/H-4 are the Raptor-I/II, then Pakistan still has nothing related to a BVR air-to-air capability.”True.
“And yet still nothing that says the weapon is in Pakistan.”
It’s not in Pakistan. Hell I would not call it a joint project, Pakistan will buy the missile to arm the FC-1 but has nothing to do with it, it’s like Israel buying the AIM-120 and calling it a joint program. The SD-10 is a Chinese missile that happens to use a Russian seeker and data link.
“H-1/2 are Raptor I/II and H-4 is either a MUPSOW or Darter-T. The point to note is thet why did they skip on H-3, ot is it something that hasn’t been publicly acknowledged yet.”
So now there is an H-1. Wow. (Sarcasm).
“Of this Raptor and MUPSOW news is true then they have acquired the following technolgies locally.”
Or just bought them off the shelf from South Africa in the form of the Raptor I/II.
i will not call it off the shelf purchase because if it was off the shelf purchase they would have announced it much earlier. i don’t see any recent transfer of systems.
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