Originally posted by flex297
SD-10, I have to repeat myself, I am only answering your questions. You have written that I cannot prove any MiG’s qualities, I have beaten ya down. Now you start to babble about which one is better or worse, I have not said a single thing about this and I certainly don’t deny capabilities of F-16, mainly in A-G.

Now you have written some *fighter advantages*, it this something officially approved or just your own list to make F-16 look better and MiG-29 look worse? For instance *size of the aircraft* or *hardpoints*…

That is your point of view, not mine.. But you know the Viper has no chance against MiG here, so now *it has nothiing to do with fighter advantage*according to you. Of course it has, IMHO, the question about missiles is the most important one of all. What is an aircraft without weapons? Just an expensive fun jet..

BTW, deliveries of F-16 started in 1978, MiG-29 entered service 1983.

There you go. You concentrated on missiles not on actual aircraft.

Size of aircraft matters in WVR and in detection range, Hardpoints

matter in numbetr of missiles carrying capacity.

Weopons load also matter.

True mutirole capability matters because most airforces cannot

afford two aircrafts for different jobs.

Now tell me If F-16 has bigger nose or MIG-29 has bigger nose?

You know every thing but still hiding it just like you hide Induction

date untill this point and i am sure you know the price and engine

hrs but you are not telling me.

Now due to time line Compare F-16C with MIG-29a not the F-16a.

and your whole argument blows apart. Don’t you think so.

Originally posted by flex297
The max. weapon load comes from actual Fulcrum loadout scheme which was centreline drop tank, two R-27s, two R-73s and two R-60MKs. They simply could not weight more even if Fulcrum was capable to carry more load. F-16 had more hard points because it was designed for strike role, as well (unlike the Fulcrum).

And when it comes to radar range, good, it is similar but in terms of BVR fight you can do nothing in F-16A except pulling the ejection handles.

It seems that it is you who has lost the arguments.

How i lost the argument when the smaller fighter is carrying more

and has similar Radar range. And still you didnot give me the

time line of actual induction. I bet that the induction time of more

capable F-16C is the same with MIG-29A. What about RCS of

both fighters at that time. I read from your link that F-16C has just

1.2Sqm. very difficult to see at those time Soviet radars.

Bottom line is that you cannot prove any quality above F-16.

Originally posted by flex297
F-16A – 5,400 kilograms on nine hardpoints (optional)
MiG-29 – 3,000 kilograms on seven hardpoints

Radar Range figures: roughly the same (about 100kms)

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Articles/PG/PGSA.htm

And for the engines, prior to comparing the MTBO and service life expectancy, please, compare their prices…

Dont you think that F-16 being smaller has more hard points

and weopon loads and Similar radar range? and what about

the price and maintainance? And dates of initial induction. It

seems that you have already lost the argument.

Originally posted by flex297
GD, I am trying hard to be open to your arguments but you did not convince me a tiny little bit so far. Since there never was a major conflict between US and Russia which could have shown the actual capabilities of the aircraft, your arguments are pretty much pointless.

You are taking these silly kill ratio numbers once again, you are comparing F-15s with late 50s era MiG-21s and monkey versions of MiG-23, you are comparing IDF/AF victories over Arabs, what does it say? Have you ever tried to find out figures about US military aid to Israel in dollars during the 70s and compared them to Soviet aid to Egypt? Was it ten or twenty times more? Then, what the heck are you speaking about?

You exaggerate drawbacks of Russian hardware and silently pass over those of US hardware to make things up. Strangely, I have never seen you critisize F-16A for missing BVR capability, F-14As for their immense problems with TF30, poor safety record of F-16 (all versions) etc., but I have already heard thousands of comments on MiG-29’s short range, MiG-29 lacks this and lacks that, what is this all about?

You say Russian aircraft are currently closing to the 30yr old US standard in terms of cockpit layout. OK, now we got 2004, minus 30years is 1974, this is roughly F-4E Phantom or (+/- some years) early F-15A (non-MSIP). I am sure now you’d like to reconsider this statement of you…

On this I am with GD. What is the weopon load of a Single engine

F-16A in relation with MIG-29A?. Also give radar specification of

both aircrafts?. Also the number of Hard Points. And when were

the two IOC dates? Engine Hrs.

The timing between F-15A and Su-27 is too long to make any

comparision.

Originally posted by Wolverine
sorry to burst your bubble but you are the one doing some wishful thinking here (as usual)

is SD10 even ready? when will it be ready? and you are already talking about ramjet missiles. where does it say that this so called SD11 is to be carried on FC1? especially considering the radar on the PAF version may be totally (and most likely will be) different. satellite guided munitions? LMAO. yeah first try and get the capability yourself. then talk about exporting it. china for sometime in unlikely to get GPS assisted weaponary. so carry on dreaming.

no ofcourse not. why rule out things like that F22 clone? dont rule that out either. and dont forget to add the stealth bombers and star wars systems to that list either 😀
so what mini AEWs do you have? and what makes you so confident that you can make a full phalcon type system for 2006? do you have any of these to start with?

it sure as hell is 😀

with all due respect you know squat about the J10. you dont even know about many of the sub systems it involves. so you really dont know if it belongs to the ef2000, rafale category or not. hell it may not even resemble the LCA, gripen level when it coems to the technology involved. you simply dont know do you.

ii would rather be getting F16s with Aim120s and american support and then F35s if possible than J10s and chinese support. FC1 is rather outdated by todays standards. this statement somehow always causes flames but i will risk it. no one would be going for the FC1 unless they had no choice and little or no money. PAF is basically stuck with this thing. beggers cant be choosers is how the saying goes.
and furthurmore what makes you think china will be willing to sell the J10? dont you have your own equirements to meet first?

funny. so what radar is fc1 going to carry? what type of EW suite? what type of datalinks? are you talking about block 10 PAF f16s or f16s in general? i.e. the blk 50/52s?

You know i normally do not waste time on an Indian. Just Search

the SD-10 thread, started by SD-10. You will know the Induction

date of SD-10. All Chinese Aircraft will be carrying Indeginous

radars like Type 1473 for J-10, Type 1474 for J-11, One of

modification will be offererd for export. You cannot export a

Fighter without full complement of weopons and systems.

PL-9C is advanced version of PL-9. SD-10 in reality is not R-129

but some thing derived from R-129 project.

Originally posted by phrozenflame
Can you display that here also? 😉

thanks

once we know the avionics, I’m going to post J-10 vs M2k & F-16 , they’re in the same league, so its going to be interesting.

What kind of comparisions? If you are doing for Avionics than

western fighters have the edge but if you are doing for flight

performance than J-10 is better. You should actually do the

comparision of J-10 with EF , Rafale and Gripen. They have i think

similardesgn concept. M2K and F-16 are now old they are better

compared with FC-1

Originally posted by Vympel
[B]
Deulsional eh? So tell me, where’s the market for SD-10. Besides Pakistan?

What do you think about China internal Market for SD-10?

There are rougly 500 BVr capable fighters with PLAAF, PLAN . And

it will become double in next 5 or 6 years. For 1000 BVR fighters

one needs atleast 4000 missiles alone not considering usage for

training etc. And i think at least 400 will be exported to Pakistan

for 150 FC-1. So you are looking at at least 4500 Missiles market

not to mention export to other countries. Your logic about SD-10

linkage with R-77 boggles mind.

Originally posted by GoldenDragon
Including possibly the person who started this thread.

Come on, he has 18 posts and is apologizing for a non-related thread on ANOTHER forum HERE???

Now you have ignored your own rule of “IGNORE”. I can reply

better but i have to pick and chose to whom to reply.