KramerAviation week published some snippets of an interview with ACM PV Naik.
Steps are being taken to bring obsolescence levels (50% of equipment is outdated) down to 20% by 2014-15. “Air defense is the most critical,” he says.
Financial constraints hampered this effort in the past, Naik says. “We can now spend more money and buy what we need. In a few years, the IAF will have the medium multi-role combat aircraft, light combat aircraft, fifth-generation combat aircraft and the Su-30s with a reduced diversity.”
Naik acknowledges that accident prevention is a key driver. “With older aircraft the mean time between failures changes…. That is why older aircraft have more accidents. We’ve had a lot of engine-related problems on the MiG-27s recently. Some are related to design, some to production and to human error. We are in discussions with the [original manufacturer].”
India and Russia are jointly developing a fifth-generation stealth fighter by 2017. “We are looking for about 200 to 250 aircraft,” Naik says…
Naik justifies India’s U.S. foreign military sales request for 10 C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft—a $4.4-billion deal. “A big study was carried out,” he says. “Our requirement was to move a large quantity of forces and materials from forward places [and] operate on short air strips. The C-17 stood out.”
KramerIAF base at Car Nicobar to be upgraded with new MPR, new air defence squadron (hopefully Akash) and permanent flight detachment (they’ve been asking for Su-30MKIs).
The Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Car Nicobar soon will have a full-fledged flight detachment, and a medium power radar (MPR) will be commissioned by 2012.
“The MPR will further add teeth to the base,” Wing Cdr. M.S. Sridhar, officiating station commander, tells AVIATION WEEK. “We have a Rohini radar now with limited ground control interception. We will also have an air defense weapons squadron.”
The base falls under the Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC), which has plans to upgrade the facility so all IAF platforms can operate from here. The site sustained severe damage in the December 2004 tsunami.
“We lost close to 130 [people] from IAF during [the] tsunami and we have now completely reconstructed the base,” Sridhar says. “The runway was the key. It acted as the lifeline to people here, and it, too, was redone four months after the tsunami. The base had subsided by 1.2 meters, post-tsunami.”
“The 122 HF Helicopter Sqdn. operates the MI-8 choppers. There is a UAV base, which is used for reconnaissance for the southern and northern group of islands,” Sridhar says.
The base is strategic for ANC because the major shipping lanes of many countries, including China, pass through the region. The base’s development is is considered key for monitoring the Malacca Straits.
A couple of years ago, India’s Defense Research and Development Organization tested the BrahMos supersonic ship-to-ship missile from the Car Nicobar region.
KramerAs mentioned earlier, IAF is modernising, but there are still some major critical gaps,especially in its SAM network
50% of IAF equipment obsolete, says IAF chief
a cursory look at the PAF’s air-defence network will tell you that it is in no better state, even with the purchase of the SPADA. It is mostly obsolete.
KramerDon’t know if this is authentic or not, but it claims that the US Govt. has cleared NG to offer the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye to the IN..
The US government cleared yet another high technology system for sale to India, the E-2D aircraft for Airborne Early Warning (AEW) and battle management.
The US Navy has programmed for 75 E-2D aircraft, which is an all-weather, twin-engine, carrier-based aircraft designed to extend early warning surveillance capabilities. Acquisition cost per aircraft is estimated to be $235 million…
The US government cleared yet another high technology system for India, the shipboard capable Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for Airborne Early Warning (AEW) and battle management. The clearance has been described by diplomatic sources as a fall-out of the ”successful” visit of secretary of state Hillary Clinton, and the signing of the End User Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) of military equipment being supplied or sold by the US to India.
India is the second country, after the UAE, to be cleared by the US state and defence departments for sale of this sophisticated system. The US navy has sanctioned $432 million for trials of the aircraft, currently underway at the naval air station Patuxent River in Maryland. The naval systems command based there provides engineering and testing support for new naval systems and weapons.
The Hawkeye E-2D has been under the US government’s consideration for India for some time. In fact, in 2007, Pentagon sources in Washington indicated the aircraft was being cleared, but apparently the previous version, Hawkeye E-2C, was eventually offered to which the Indian navy said ”no” in informal discussions.
Indian navy officers had witnessed the capabilities of the Hawkeye E-2C but told the US officials that as the equipment India buys would be used for years, it must be the best and the latest with future capability insertion potential. Future aircraft carriers of the Indian navy would also have to be equipped with catapult launching systems.
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KramerAhem.
Do you chaps have any idea of how boring the rest of us find these India vs Pakistan willy-waving contests?
Give it a rest, eh? 😎
and Grey Area, you would be aware of who started this “mine is longer than yours” contest on this thread. Someone posted an article and this particular poster started with the comments that led this thread down that path.
KramerWell look its ok your confused you have jumped into a conversation for some reason or other and missed the point.. Its ok we all do this .. anyways please do read the above posts again. 🙂
what’re you talking about ? you asked which part of the compressor is made of CMCs, I replied that GE has now made low pressure turbine blades out of CMCs and you asked that is a compressor same as turbine and if so what CMCs are used to make it..
who said that a turbine is the same as the compressor ? I didn’t. You asked whether they were the same (and now you’ll say that you knew it isn’t of course 😉 ). Teer merely pointed out how illogical your question was and pointed you to some basics.. Nothing more. If anyone is confused, it is you.
Kramer😀
KramerAir Marshal Browne, a seasoned SEPECAT Jaguar pilot who has extensive experience on virtually every variant of the MiG-21 as well
I recalled an article on the Jaguar in IAF service that showed a picture of (then) Flt. Lt. NAK Browne alongwith the others who were among the first pilots to convert onto the Jaguar in the UK..Air Chief Marshal (retd.) SP Tyagi was one of the batch.
L to R: – Flt Lt DC Kumaria, Flt Lt SCS Adhikari, Sqn Ldr DDS Kumar, Wg Cdr DR Nadkarni, Sqn Ldr SP Tyagi, Flt Lt NAK Browne, Sqn Ldr M McMahon. Sqn Ldr JS Sisodia is on the ladder.
picture courtesy of Bharat-rakshak.com
KramerGE built Low pressure turbine blades out of ceramic matrix composites. They already have built liners, shrouds, nozzles with ceramic matrix composites.
By Anantha Krishnan M.
BENGALURU, India — GE Aviation’s GE F414 has edged out Eurojet’s EJ200 to power the Mk-II version of India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).
The deal is estimated to be worth close to $800 million, after taking into account spares and other critical parts of the engine. Sources confirm to AVIATION WEEK that close to 100 Tejas aircraft will be powered by the GE F414 engine…
The PNC, headed by DRDO’s chief controller for Aerospace Systems, Dr. Prahlada, kept a tight lid on the evaluation process, even though the Indian media put its money on the EJ200. “The current order is for 100 engines and you can’t rule out the possibility of a repeat order for another 100 in the future,” a source says. “Now we will intensify our negotiations with the L-1 [GE Aviation] and iron out all remaining issues. This could take 2-3 months, after which a formal deal will be signed. Tejas Mk-II with GE-F414 will fly in the next three years.”
The current lot of Tejas aircraft are flying with the GE 404 engine, and the initial eight limited series production (LSP) versions and the 20 series production will fly with the same engine. The IAF is likely to place an order for 20 more Tejas, and the new engine would be introduced with that batch.
….
ADA and HAL will have to make some slight modifications to the Tejas airframe to make the new engine fit. “It meets all the performance requirements of Tejas, like the rate of turn and thrust in all modes,” a source says. “The first lot of the engines will come by 2014-15 and the rest would be manufactured in India under transfer of technology [agreements]. The first lot of engines would undergo some simple tests and minute modifications before they are fitted to Tejas Mk-II … The GE F414 would also power the LCA naval variant.”
KramerThat MLU installs Block 50 avionics into a Block 15 airframe 😮
yes, but it was thought to be cheaper..after all the Mirage upgrade installs Mirage-2000-5 avionics into the earliest variants of the -2000. and it was deemed very expensive at $40 million. This is nearly the same price. Anyway, wrong thread to discuss this so I won’t write anymore about this.
Kramerwhat use is TVC for Tejas? Oh, about the same use as for Eurofighter, another canard aircraft?
I.e., helping MTOW, reducing canard deflection (radar X-section) and improving in-flight fuel economy, i.e. range,
not to mention redundancy for when other control surfaces are damaged…I was under the impression that the EJ200 actually currently matches size/weight balance of LCA and GE414 would require more extensive modification of fuselage to account for size and weight differences, which would also add more time and risk to development schedule. If lower weight variant of GE414 is later developed/offered to India THAT would need ballast if LCA had in the mean time been modified for the previous weighting.
It seems disingenuous to froth at the mouth over future GE414 upgrades, while ignoring that EJ200 has a 20% growth margin, some of which may be used for efficiency (thus range) rather than thrust. Comparing who has greater thrust is absurd, it matters if it meets the requirements… and enlarging LCA to accomodate GE414 is certainly going to increase it`s weight as well.
But if GE won on costs (EJ hasn`t disputed that), which isn`t surprising,
they won by the rules of the game, so complaining about `pulling political strings` is very disingenuous.
the single engined Tejas doesn’t really need TVC. And the Tejas isn’t a canard aircraft, so there is no question about reducing canard deflection. Regarding the minor improvements in range, its not a big issue. A Tejas test pilot once remarked that it’s GE F-404 practically sipped fuel and it gave the Tejas enviably long legs for such a small fighter (Vayu Aerospace magazine). Besides, we’ll just wait and see if a TVC equipped Typhoon ever emerges and enters service or not. That will be the proof of the pudding.
The Ej-200 is more than 150 kgs lighter than the F-404 and it also required extensive modifications which were listed down by Shiv Aroor when he visited their facility in Germany. They themselves said that it will be completely ready for the Tejas Mk2 in 2 years after winning the contract (2012-13 at the very earliest). Its not such a straight-forward affair as you make it out to be. It has not been certified for single-engined operations and that required some new equipment, modifications to its flight controls, and both flight tests as well as additional costs. Those modifications as well as other costs were factored into the bid cost and that is what raised the EJ bid above GE’s figure.
the GE F414 upgrades (such as EDE and EPE) are ALREADY in work. The GE F414-G for the single engined Gripen NG is already flying. So there is no question about it needing any more work to be qualified for single engined ops. The only Ej-200 upgrade that we’ve heard is being actively pursued (but no interest from core group of customers as yet) is the Ej-200 TVC and nothing regarding a 100+ kN variant, something that the IAF and the IN (especially) would be most interested in, considering the kind of hot and humid conditions they will need to operate in.
Growth margin is one thing, but who pays for that growth to be translated into an in-production variant ? How is that cost to be factored into the bid ? As it is, it is now being stated that when ToT and added cost for modifications to suit single engine operation were includedand
Enlarging the Tejas Mk2’s fuselage to fit the F-414 is not required. Did they enlarge the Gripen NG over the C/D to fit the F-414 instead of the F-404 ? Nope. Same applies here. Small changes here and there, which were required for the Ej-200 as well (clearly stated by ADA officials months ago). They will enlarge the air intakes due to higher air-flow requirements, and beef up the engine cradle and surrounding structure, but the 10% more thrust that the F-414 gives is a big advantage. Now they’re stating that the F-414-INS6 is the highest rated F-414, so maybe it is a derivative of the F-414 EPE ? If it is, that’ll be 26,600 lbs wet thrust. That is more than 6000 lbs over the Ej-200’s current 20,000 lbs wet thrust. And if they tune it to achieve higher thrust at the cost of lower up-times and using up engine life faster, then it will turn out to be a costly thing over the life of a single Tejas Mk2.
KramerThailand to upgrade 18 F-16A/B Block 15 aircraft with the Mid-Life Upgrade (MLU).
The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress Sept. 29 of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Thailand of a three-phased program to upgrade 18 F-16A/B Block 15 aircraft with the Mid-Life Upgrade (MLU) and asscoiated parts,…acomplete package worth approximately $ 700 million.
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2010/Thailand_10-54.pdf
That’s surprising..isn’t that quite expensive ? works out to $39 million per F-16 and that isn’t including any weapons, just refit, spares, new avionics and electronics. Heck, its as expensive as the upgrades that Dassault offers for the Mirage-2000.
Kramerimage courtesy of Livefist blog
KramerSounds like that is sorted, doesn’t it? Tejas gets the GE engine. I think the Eurojet engine would have been the better choice for a number of reasons:
a) more TOT
b) designed for growth to ~ 24,000lb thrust or more
c) fewer political strings regarding use/export of Tejas (+ possibly MCA?)
d) thrust vectoring system already partially developed. Potentially useful for MCA?
The question that can be asked is, what use is a TVC nozzle for the Tejas ? None. And where is the higher thrust (24,000 lbs wet) Ej-200 as of now ? Who will have to fund it to bring it to production status ? How much time does it require for testing ? And how much more expensive will it be ?
The existing Ej-200 that was offered was not certified to be used for single-engined fighters, and it required modifications that were believed to take 2 years to get ready.
Fact is that other than the fewer political strings, there doesn’t seem to be much more advantages to the Ej-200 engine. And being that it was clearly an L1 tender, the Ej-200 bid was simply costlier than the F-414 while both met the required specs. They counted the cost of ToT and tooling for both the engines (both had to offer smilar levels to be considered compliant) and the GE offer was cheaper. The only question that will remain is whether or not GE can now go and get the necessary ToT export clearances in time or not. Apparently (as per Ajai Shukla) negotiations on price will carry on till mid-2011 and after that GE gets 121 days plus 2 months additional to get these export clearances. With the recent changes planned to the export regulations in the US, I am optimistic that it will happen. Else, the deal will be cancelled and Eurojet will get it.
And from the Tejas Mk2’s T/W ratio point of view, IMO, the F-414 is definitely a better option- the Ej-200 is capable of generating 10-15 kN less than an F-414 while being only 150 kgs lighter or so (and its not clear whether that means that so much weight is shaved off the airframe since they may have to add ballast).
With ~ 90 kN wet thrust, the Ej-200 was only giving 8-10 kN more than the F-404-IN20, which is not that big a spike. And as Loke posted an article showing how GE is already moving ahead on a possible new glass ceramic material application on the F-414 engine that may reduce weight further, they are not standing still either. Already the higher thrust (26,600 lbs wet) F-414 EPE has been offered along with the Super Hornet for the MRCA (confirmed in a recent Aviationweek article that was talking about the RAAF’s E/A-18G configured Super Hornets). If that particular variant is available at a later date, it offers the possibility that a Tejas Mk3 with that engine can grow heavier, add more payload and avionics and still meet performance specs.
KramerIf at all.
It’d be even worse of a decision if India choose, (or shall I say; US chooses) the F-18. Don’t get me wrong its a fine little aeroplane but by time it enters full operational service with the Indian Air Force, it’ll just be another aeroplane getting long in the tooth. Then theres the US sticking its nose in when it comes to tech.
Like I’ve said before, if you want the best package available, go for the Eurofighter. It might not be a mature platform and a bit more expensive than the F-18, while the F-18 is cheaper, more mature but thats like saying; ‘Well why buy a 2010 Formula 1 car to race with when you can buy a 1980’s F1 car for a cheaper price, and its mature too.’ Yes thats true, but it won’t be better.
The problem is that the 2010 F-1 car may be new, but that doesn’t mean it does the job at the end of the day any better than the as-well equipped 2001 F-1 car does. It may be shinier, newer and better looking, but the avionics on board and the capabilities it has displayed are the parameters on which it is being measured..not some future capability that may or may not come and even if it does come, may require a lot more additional funding..
And when the home countries start looking to sell their existing stocks and reneging on previous numbers for newer tranches, it doesn’t really inspire so much confidence. Like for instance, Italy’s decision to cap the T3 acquisition and go with F-35s for air to ground strike roles.
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