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Kramer

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  • in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2404260
    Kramer
    Participant

    Dec. 27 has been set as the deadline for the completion of certification process so that the Tejas Mk1 can enter IOC with the IAF..Its the same date that has been set for AK Antony to declare the IOC for the Tejas Mk1..this certification is a time consuming task, I know since I’ve worked on this type of stuff and it is extremely laborious and time consuming, consolidating reports, analysis files, FEM models, references, test reports and what not, worth years of work for scrutiny by the certifying agency..I wonder if the ADA and CEMILAC follow the FAA and JAA procedures and have Airworthiness Representatives embedded alongwith the Tejas program who will guide the engineers working on the certification task..Without specialists like AR’s to guide them, there will be far too much back and forth communication, work and re-work that will occur.

    The article also gives a figure for the number of Tejas Mk2 that will be inducted, which means that there will be eventually 6 squadrons (total 126) of Tejas Mk1 and Mk2s in the IAF..maybe Mk1s will be eventually re-engined with the Ej-200 or F-414 and other structural and avionics changes will be made during a MLU in a way similar to what is being done for Gripen A/Bs to C/Ds ? Too early to say I guess.

    56 N-LCA’s means 2 operational squadrons plus a OCU.

    BTW, are the 8 Limited Series Production (LSP) fighters the ones that will be handed over to the IAF or will they receive the first from the 20 that were ordered long ago?

    article link from Aviation week

    India has set a Dec. 27 deadline to complete the certification process for its Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)

    According to P.S. Subramanyam, director for combat aircraft at the Aeronautical Development Agency, the deadline was set to make sure Tejas enters its much-awaited initial operational clearance phase. The certification process is monitored by the Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification.

    “We are at it, and close to 400 scientists and engineers are currently working on the certification program,” he says. “We need to consolidate all that we have done in the last 20 years and put it to the scrutiny of the certification agency. We have set ourselves a target to complete the certification process and December 27 will be a significant day for India’s military aviation program.”

    Subramanyam spoke before a select group of defense correspondents during the official logo launch of the Bangalore Defense and Aerospace Journalists’ Forum.

    The LCA chief said that an additional 20 Tejas aircraft are on the way, bringing the total to 40. The first 40 will be MK-1s, while the next 86 will be Mk-2s, with a new powerplant. The Indian navy is projected to receive 56 of the aircraft, while 16 trainers also will be delivered.

    Sources say the limited series production vehicle (LSP-5) is expected to fly very soon, with the LSP-6 (an experimental platform), LSP-7 and LSP-8 following suit.

    “The engine ground run for LSP-5 is over, and we may conduct the first flight after sorting out some last-minute teething issues,” a source said.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2404264
    Kramer
    Participant

    5 Tejas prototypes undergoing sea-level flutter trials at high AoA at Dabolim, Goa. Conditions are very humid especially now with the monsoon season. Interestingly, mentions radar trials for air-to-air and air-to-sea modes and also additional weapons testing to be carried out..

    Aviation Week article link

    India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is currently undergoing sea trials at NAS Hansa, at Dabolim in Goa.

    This is part of Tejas’s out-of-station flight-test plan, with pilots from the Bengaluru-based National Flight Test Center performing high angle-of-attack (AOA) maneuvers.

    A source tells AVIATION WEEK that Tejas will undergo parameter identification (PID) and sea-level flutter vibration tests, with an all-external stores (bombs, fuel tanks, missiles) configuration.

    “The PID is done [with] latest software version of the digital flight control computer being developed by the Aeronautical Development Establishment,” the source says. “There are many system integration checks and weapon modes to be tested. We need to check some more sea-level performance points in high-AOA mode.”

    The Tejas took part in earlier trials at NAS Hansa, during which it fired a missile, and will undergo extensive weapon testing next month. A large contingent of engineers, scientists, pilots and ground crew are in Goa for the trials, which will continue until next week.

    Five Tejas aircraft from the flight line are expected to participate in the sea trials.

    “Radar assessment at sea level for air-to-air and air-to-sea mode will also be tested,” the source says. “The Tejas will be flown at different altitudes and Mach numbers, while the flutter test will be done with various external configurations.”

    The trials are critical for the Tejas program, which is moving toward completing all pre-initial operational clearance requirements.

    in reply to: MMRCA News And Discussion V #2404310
    Kramer
    Participant

    Lets stay on track here.

    I think you are partially right.
    But you are stretching it a bit here.
    The IAF Mig-21 and Mig-29 airframes life hour is pretty high.
    If you wear & tear fighters on high alert with many flight hours and a few conflict here and there, expect there to be some attritions too.
    SV lack of spares parts have several reason behind it.
    The SV airforces had first priority.
    Just like RuAF and USAF do today, nothing usually about this.
    The prod output rate of spare parts was not that great as it should have been, considering that the SV airforce units had lower life service flight hour vs western airframes.
    You make it sound like the high attrition in IAF is due to spare parts alone.
    Which of course is far from the thruth.
    Also keep in mind that IAF did and do operate quite a high figure of different units which also is a reason for attritions.

    Stretching it a bit huh ? The SV forces weren’t even using MiG-21s in the 1990s. So not being able to supply spares because the SV forces had priority is totally untrue in the case of the MiG-21, which still had a very large worldwide fleet which needed to be maintained.

    Nobody said that attrition won’t happen. the IAF itself has not once said that attrition was the responsibility of the Russians alone. It was a mix of technical issues (such as the issues with the R-29, or the issues with the MiG-23’s engine that made it the most attrition prone fighter in the IAF), the lack of an AJT, rookie pilots having to fly very high performance fighters that had small margins for errors, plus the difficulty of flying in areas where bird hits were more common than in some other countries for various reasons like open dump grounds near air force bases.

    But what did irk a lot of IAF officials was a top MiG official saying that the IAF was giving the MiG-21 a bad name (in fact being one of the most enthusiastic operators of the MiG-21 and one of the few that used it successfully in a war, it should be the opposite) and that the MiG-21 crashes were because the IAF was sourcing spares from dubious sources.

    And it is a fact that the IAF suffered from very long periods of aircraft non-availability due to spares not being available from Russia..and the IAF didn’t need hangar queens being a force that has a real and present threat all the time.

    I’m not saying that it was all the Russians’ fault since many factories in the earstwhile SU went to independent CIS states and many completely stopped manufacturing spares for the older Soviet models anyway. But, from the IAF’s point of view, with almost 80% of its fleet being MiGs, the issue was that of availability which was badly affected and also obscene prices that were being charged through arms dealers. It is not a coincidence that Rosboronexport had to open a spares depot for the MiG-29 in India recently.

    This article from Flight International dates back to 1993 and highlights the kinds of issues that basically ended the chances of the MiG-29 being licence produced in India in large numbers.


    The availability of Mikoyan MiG-29 Fulcrums for the Indian Air Force has been reduced by up to 20% because of maintenance problems with the aircraft systems and powerplants, according to a report by India’s Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG).

    The report says that a shortage of radar components caused the grounding of seven aircraft for between six and 20 months, and that a large number of aircraft computers have become unserviceable within the last three years. Figures show that, up to July 1992, 74% of the Klimov RD33 engines had failed within five years of service entry. According to the report, of the total of 188 engines available in the fleet, 139 failed prematurely, with 62 engines withdrawn before completing 50% of the prescribed overhaul life of 300h. Problems include cracks in nozzle guide vanes, foreign object damage and discoloured engine oil. Quoting the air force, the report says that this has led to an overall decline of 10% in the serviceability of the current fleet of 42 MiG-29As and four MiG-29Bs. It adds that performance shortfalls have ranged from between 20% and 68% for the MiG-29As and 59% to 83% for the MiG-29Bs.

    Earlier this year, India and Russia signed a comprehensive agreement to guarantee supplies of defence equipment, spare parts, product support and system maintenance. The accord follows Indian concern at the lack of spare parts for front-line equipment since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

    This is not the only issue either..there have been instances of Russians trying to pass off second-hand equipment such as tanks as brand new but being discovered by IA officers who were only too familiar with those tanks. Anyway, the fact is that procuring arms from the Russians has had its pros and cons. More pros for a long time due to the very lenient and favourable terms of credit offered, but now its time that India stops being reliant on just one supplier for the vast majority of its arms. It is in India’s own interest and I think that in the MRCA contest they will move away from the Russians.

    in reply to: MMRCA News And Discussion V #2404465
    Kramer
    Participant

    “she was advised not to say that she was American mainly because the vendors were majority Muslims and had a poor opinion of the US”

    and we wonder why threads go downhill…..

    well she was advised that and she told me so. That has nothing to do with anything else. The same people were supposedly very warm to her but the perception of the US as being anti-Muslim is quite strong in many regions. Of course, being politically correct means no one will want to mention it, but those are the facts. You want to look at it as if it insults Muslims somehow, but that was not the intention at all.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2404921
    Kramer
    Participant

    India’s indigenous AWACS on the EMB-145 jet to fly in 2011.

    article link

    Embraer aircraft with Indian warning system to fly by 2011 2010-09-12 15:50:00
    Last Updated: 2010-09-13 15:53:01

    An Indian built Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEWCS) will be integrated into the Brazilian Embraer-145 Aircraft, which will fly in the country in January 2011, said a senior official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

    The AEWCS comprises radars that look far and deep providing command and control for battle management functions with data link for both tactical and defence forces, DRDO Chief Controller Prahlada said.

    ‘And the aircraft with the Indian AEWCS will be flying in India by the end of 2011 (after tests),’ he said, during an interaction with the media here Friday.

    India and Brazil have signed a deal to jointly integrate the DRDO’s AEWCS onto a Brazilian airborne platform. Three Brazilian Embraer-145 aircraft will carry the Active Array Antenna Units (AAAU), developed by DRDO.

    ‘Three modified EMB-145 aircraft will be developed under this agreement,’ Prahlada said.

    The Defence Electronics Application Laboratory (LRDE), one of the DRDO laboratory, is building the primary sensors, communication systems and data link. The Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) is making self-protection systems, electronic warfare suites and provide communication support systems.

    The heart of the radar is from the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment. The integration of the systems, mission computer, display and data handling is being done by the Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS).

    in reply to: MMRCA News And Discussion V #2404926
    Kramer
    Participant

    How does this fit in, when Indias Pak-Fa/FGFA is destin to enter IAF operational service..:confused:
    No offence, but What a honk of crap article.
    It is somewhat contradictive in itself, and the point is hard to spot. Until this last section that is..

    I would very much like to know who that section within the IAF is.
    If it wheren’t for the Russian Aviation Industri, and for that matter the SU, what units and structure would involve in IAF looking back at history..
    And now long after those Indian-Pak clashes, i’m pretty sure USA would be more than happy to sell those Viper to both side, if Russia had turned down the IAF Su-30/MKI and Mig-29’s request..

    Some people seems to forget history and where a helping hand came from.
    This’ powerfull section within the IAF’ cant be much more than a drop in the ocean if you look at the big picture.

    haavarla, the article is basically rehashing old, well known facts. Thats ok. But the fact is that the whole supply of fighters and weapons to India by the Soviets was part of their attempt to keep the socialist, but non-aligned India, closer to their side than the Western capitalist nations. The IAF had been sourcing its fighters from Britain and France well before the first Soviet fighter (MiG-21-F13) entered IAF service.

    Supplying MiG-29s to India before any other nation proved to be both a blessing and a curse..a blessing because they were good air-defence fighters and were provided at very very cheap prices..curse because they were not multi-role, had long periods of grounding and most importantly, because it derailed the planned licence manufacture of the Mirage-2000 in India. The MiG-29’s introduction split the IAF opinion on whether the MiG-29 or the Mirage-2000 should be licence produced and due to the delay in the decision making and the collapse of the SU and the massive Indian economic crunch of the early 90s, neither was chosen, which meant that both the MiG-29 and Mirage-2000 remained in relatively small numbers in the IAF (compared to licence manufactured fighters).

    But, the IAF has for 2 decades after the fall of the SU, had major issues with what were essentially Soviet aircraft. issues with lack of spares, issues with poor support, price gouging for inferior parts cannibalised from retired fighters, reneging on contractual obligations (such as ToT on Kopyo radars and not meeting MTBO and MTBF specs) have fed up most of the IAF that deals with these issues. And to top it all, there were allegations that the IAF was buying spares from the CIS for its MiG-21s which was causing the high attrition rate..if the Russians could supply it without hiccups then there would be no need to go to any CIS nations at all !

    Anyway, everyone in India looks at Russia as a friend. Believe me, we all know how the SU was a great friend for India for decades and much of it was with very few strings attached, unlike Western support. But, that doesn’t imply that the IAF will simply forget what a tough time it has had with some of its Soviet origin equipment.

    p.s: one anecdote- my boss is an American born and brought up in Russia. She feels very warmly about India because of the fact that Indian movies were popular out there..but she was most amazed about how when she visited Hyderabad, a city in India for some work, she was advised not to say that she was American mainly because the vendors were majority Muslims and had a poor opinion of the US. She instead went to bazaars and markets and told people that she was Russian and she said the response was extremely warm and friendly. 😉

    in reply to: MMRCA News And Discussion V #2404939
    Kramer
    Participant

    http://www.ptinews.com/news/948672_IAF-to-acquire-126-multi-fighter-aircrafts-soon-

    So Mig and Typhoon are out ?

    Don’t read too much into that statement..more likely that he forgot to mention the other nations and not that he was dropping a hint on who was eliminated.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2407252
    Kramer
    Participant

    India and Russia to soon ink JV on the PAK-FA 5th gen fighter. Comes soon on the heels of the JV being signed for the Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA).

    [url=

    Late on Thursday evening, in a triumph for the Russia-India defence relationship, the two countries signed off on a joint venture to co-develop a 15-20-tonne payload, 2,500-km range multi-role transport aircraft (MTA), which will replace the Indian Air Force’s venerable AN-32 at the end of the next decade.

    But this path-breaking $600-million co-development of the MTA is likely to be dwarfed soon, when India and Russia each pledge $6 billion to co-develop the world’s premier fighter, a step ahead of the US Air Force’s F-22 Raptor, which currently rules the skies.

    Senior defence ministry sources have confirmed to Business Standard that years of tortuous negotiations have been successfully concluded in time for Russian President Dimitry Medvedev’s visit to India in December.

    Russian and Indian negotiators have finalised a preliminary design contract (PDC), a key document that will allow designers from both sides to actually begin work on the fighter.

    “The negotiators have done their job, and the Cabinet Committee for Security will consider the PDC, probably this month,” says the ministry official. “If the CCS gives the green signal, as is likely, the contract will be signed during Medvedev’s visit.”

    HAL Chairman Ashok Nayak had indicated to Business Standard on a recent visit to HAL, Bangalore, that the deal was done. “It is in the system for approval,” said Nayak.
    “The respective work shares have been agreed to by both sides and once we sign the preliminary design contract, we will finish the design in about 18 months. Developing and building the fighter could take 8-10 years, and each side will pay $6 billion as its share.”

    The Russian and Indian Air Forces each plan to build around 250 fighters, at an estimated cost of $100 million each. That adds up to $25 billion, over and above the development cost.

    Russia initially offered India partnership in the fighter programme around eight years ago, but there was little clarity then on crucial issues like work-share, ie, what systems and components each side would develop.

    From 2005-07, India’s growing closeness with the US slowed down the project. Progress received a boost from the Russia-India inter-government agreement in November 07.

    But HAL sources recount that, even after the agreement, Russian negotiators’ concerns about sharing top-secret technologies meant that a green signal from Moscow was needed for every step of the negotiations.

    “This is the first time that Russia is co-developing a cutting-edge military platform with another country. Therefore, they were unclear about how to share work in a top-secret project like this,” says a senior HAL official. “Before each step, the Russian officials wanted clearances from the highest level in Moscow. Those ‘presidential decrees’, as they call them, took their time.”

    Consequently, says the HAL chairman, it has taken almost three years from the inter-government agreement to negotiate a general contract and non-disclosure agreement. In March 2010, a tactical technical assignment was signed, in which the work-shares were agreed upon.
    India’s work-share for the joint fighter programme, according to HAL officials, will amount to about 30% of the overall design effort. This will centre on composite components and high-end electronics like the mission computer, avionics, cockpit displays and the electronic warfare systems. Additionally, India will have to redesign the single-seat PAK-FA into the two-seater fighter that the IAF prefers. Like the Sukhoi-30MKI, IAF prefers one pilot flying and the other handling sensors, networks and weaponry.

    article link

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2408151
    Kramer
    Participant

    It might be the umpteenth time that we’ve heard of the MTA without seeing any headway in the project, but this time it appears that the formal sanction is not far away. Hopefully they can sort of the bureaucratic wrangling from both sides quickly and get down to starting the project quickly.


    Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) will co-develop a Multi-Role Transport Aircraft according to agency reports quoting India Strategic magazine. The governments of India and Russia have each sanctioned USD $300.35 million for this project.

    A new company, with a base capital of USD $700.70 million, will begin work on developing the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft.

    The arrangement is said to be similar to the BrahMos venture which has already become hugely successful not only in military and defence capabilities but also in commercial terms.

    Initial orders from Russia and India are expected to be 105 and 45 respectively. The formal charter documents are expected to be signed later this month quotes IANS.

    The aircraft is said to be suitable for civilians and military purposes and has a great export potential.

    India and Russia have traditionally enjoyed good strategic and defence relations. In recent years these relations have not only grown but have evolved to a new paradigm based on commercial partnerships.

    Aircraft Specifications
    The aircraft could be powered by Russian-made Aviadvigatel PD-14 turbofan engines attached to top mounted wings, and has a T-shaped tail. The cabin size will be the same as the Ilyushin Il-76 but will be half the length. The payload will be 18.5 tons of military or civilian cargo, with a range of 2500 km and a speed of 870 km/h.

    article link

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2408741
    Kramer
    Participant

    Trust this news about the Ej-200’s likely selection at your own peril, although if true, its truly a very good piece of news, one that has taken ages to be taken and will likely bring more benefits than a US sourced F-414 variant would ever bring (although ToT is not necessarily a part of this tender up front). The winner of this Tejas Mk-2 re-engining bid will likely be a contender for the AMCA’s engine as well.

    [b]
    Flash* : Antony To Declare Initial Operational Clearance For LCA-Tejas On December 27, 2010, In Bangalore, EJ-200 Likely Winner For Mk-II !!!

    [/b]

    source

    The part about the Tejas Mk-1 being declared Initial Operational Capable is a huge step forward for Indian aerospace..finally after many years of effort and disappointments, the Tejas will enter IAF service !

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2410179
    Kramer
    Participant

    Something is not right in your calculations. Only 18 canardless Su-30s were delivered in total. If 18 were upgraded, then that would mean all.

    As far as I know, the first 18 Sukhois (Su-30K/MK) in IAF inventory were very extensively used and thus beaten beyond the point worth upgrading to MKI version. This would explain while we can see 14 of them in the storage.

    Vayu mentions that the 8 Su-30(MK-1) were supplied in teh first batch and 8 Su-30 (Mk-II) were supplied in the second batch and the third batch onwards they were featuring canards (Su-30MKI).

    In addition, 10 Su-30Ks that were originally destined for Indonesia, were bought by the IAF. that means a total of 26 Su-30K and Su-30MKs were obtained by the IAF although the total mentioned is 18 that were traded in for brand new Su-30MKIs.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2410187
    Kramer
    Participant

    Pardon my ignorance in not looking that strip up, now that’s a interesting find.
    We know that about 18 of the Su 30 MK’s and 10 K’s were sent to Russia to be upgraded, so are there Units still without the upgrade, this is interesting.

    Are they really on reserve as pointed out there?!?

    They were never sent to Russia for upgrades. The IAF signed a deal with Irkut to basically trade these 16 Su-30MKs and 10 Su-30Ks (not 18 MKs and 10 Ks) for brand-new Su-30MKIs. the reasons cited was that the cost feasibility was not good as these 26 fighters had been thoroughly flogged in order to develop operational doctrine and raise crews for the Su-30MKIs that were to follow.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2412763
    Kramer
    Participant

    Grey Area, I don’t have the link to the article. I was sent the text of the entire article by mail and decided to share it since this particular issue of the engine has been discussed a lot and there is plenty of ignorance on it.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force – News And Discussion #14 #2413631
    Kramer
    Participant

    Posting this article from FORCE magazine and interview with T.Mohana Rao. The article is courtesy of Austin.


    The Long Haul

    By Atul Chandra

    The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) is a premier Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) lab entrusted with the critical task of designing and developing an operational gas turbine engine for the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). While the road has been long and arduous, FORCE visited GTRE to get a better understanding of the challenges faced by the team and the milestones that have been achieved till date.

    Kaveri Programme

    The Gas Turbine Research Centre as it was called way back in 1959 consisted of a modest team of 10 engineers, scientists and 20 technicians entrusted with designing a centrifugal type gas turbine engine generating 1000 kg (2200 lb) of thrust. This engine ran for the first time on a test bed at Kanpur in 1961, by the end of that year the entire establishment moved to Bangalore and was renamed as Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE). From that infant stage, today, GTRE has grown to house more than 1,250 technical personnel whose primary responsibility is to design and develop an aero gas turbine engine for military applications besides carrying out advanced research in subsystems for the same.

    The project ‘Design and Development of Kaveri Engine’ was sanctioned on 30 March 1989 is yet ongoing and has incurred an expenditure of more than Rs 3,000 crore.

    The programme can in hindsight be termed as having been highly optimistic considering the fact there was a complete lack of knowhow ranging from design and development of a modern aero engine to technology and materials, not to mention a nonexistent vendor base capable of supplying high quality aero components on a consistent basis initially. However, aero engine development world over has always been a technology-intensive and time consuming task and the lessons that have been learnt so far are sure to be put to good use in the coming years. The effort has also resulted in numerous spinoffs over a variety of applications and the creation of a large knowledge pool with regards to gas turbine engines and associated sub systems.

    The Kaveri is a twin spool, low bypass ratio, augmented turbofan generating a dry thrust of 52 kN (11,690 lb) and reheat thrust of 81 kN (18,210 lb) weighing approximately 1250 kg. A quick comparison with engines that the Kaveri must match by the time it enters service before the end of this decade is given below.

    The Eurojet 200 and F414-GE-400 are already in a competition for the ‘Tejas’ engine contract while Snecma will partner GTRE in the quest to develop a higher thrust variant of the Kaveri engine. The Eurojet 200 is a twin spool turbofan with an afterburner thrust of 20,000 lb and 13,500 lb without reheat weighing 1,000 kg. The GE F414-400 has a maximum reheat thrust of 22,000 lb and weighs 1,109 kg. The Snecma M-88-2 offers 17,000 lb of thrust with reheat and 11,250 lb without reheat and weighs 1977 lbs. However a Snecma brochure does say that improvements could increase the thrust to 20,000 lb.
    Interestingly, while the General Electric (GE) engine powers the twin engine F/A 18 ‘Super Hornet’ and the single engine Saab Gripen, the other two engines power twin engine fighters only. Also the GE and Snecma engines are used in fighters that also have naval variants in the ‘Super Hornet’ and Rafale respectively unlike the Eurojet 200 which is used on the Eurofighter.

    Challenges

    According to director, GTRE, T Mohana Rao the, “materials required for a gas turbine engine are extremely complex. They have to be light and strong at high temperatures. An exotic alloy called Ti-64 is used for the low pressure compressor and parts of the high pressure compressor. Another alloy is used for the high temperature sections at elevated temperatures of 900 degrees centigrade for the high pressure compressor blades. Titanium, super alloys and maraging steel, all form essential components of an aero engine and a lot of these materials were developed for the Kaveri programme along with DMRL Hyderabad and Midhani.Now we have 12 important alloys for air worthiness and use on aircraft that have been certified by Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC) and RCMA. This has taken a decade to develop and we used to import all these materials previously.”

    Some of the other crucial technologies that are required for a modern combat aero engine are single-piece bladed compressor disks (blisks), single crystal high pressure turbine blades, powder metallurgy disks, ceramic coatings and composite materials. These are essential to provide the high thrust, reliability and low weight demanded of present fighter engines. Many of these technologies are not available readily and the task of developing this type of technology in house has proved to be insurmountable. However, with the entry of Snecma one can expect the programme to have access to newer technologies.

    Infrastructure

    The most important benefit to have been realised out of developing the Kaveri engine has been the creation of invaluable infrastructure for the design, manufacture, testing and certification of a modern military aero engine.

    Foreign Object Damage (FOD) Test Rig: The FOD test rig is used to understand effects of different sized objects that are ingested by the engine at high speeds. The military requirement for an aero engine is that when an object weighing two lb impacts the rotating blades at 12,000 rpm and 0.4 Mach, then the engine should be able to recover 95 per cent of its thrust in five seconds. The Kaveri engine meets this specification. The force of that impact is equivalent to 20 tonne and one can only imagine the standards required to be met to keep an aero engine operating after such an impact. The rig has also been used for the Delhi Metro (to test the windscreen), NAL ‘Saras’ programme, HAL ‘Dhruv’, IJT and LCA windshield testing.

    Rapid Prototyping:
    GTRE has developed an excellent rapid prototyping facility which can manufacture the required part in a few hours, which normally took a few months. This can then be used to conduct initial studies on the prototype and speed up the development process. Stereo lithography and fused deposition modelling using 3D CAD model data is undertaken here.

    Spin Testing:
    Another technology mastered by GTRE has been spin testing of rotors. For this, spin pits and all the associated testing equipment is available at GTRE. This equipment has also been used by HAL for cyclic spin testing of the ‘Adour’ Low Pressure (LP) and High Pressure (HP) turbine rotors and has realised revenue of Rs 3.8 crore.

    The overriding impression at GTRE was the impressive strides that have taken place in the creation of required infrastructure to design and develop our very own military aero engine. The Kaveri programme can now call on the knowledge garnered over the years, talented manpower, increased funding and entry of a foreign engine house to provide assistance. The vision of having the Tejas powered by the indigenous Kaveri engine towards the end of this decade may yet be realised.

    ‘We Are Going For An Upgraded Version of the Kaveri Engine Over The Next Two Years’
    Director, Gas Turbine Research Establishment, T. Mohana Rao

    What is the status of the Kaveri engine as of now?

    The Kaveri engine is undergoing ground testing now while the simulated flight testing has already been completed. The flying test bed trials are expected to start sometime in this month. The engine has completed about 2000 hours of ground testing so far and has been delivering the designed thrust as part of ground testing. The engine has also been fully certified for ground testing condition except for the flying test bed. Once flying trials are completed, it will be a major milestone for the project

    What developments do you see taking place over the next few years with respect to the Kaveri engine?

    The engine that has been developed at this stage will definitely have some utility. Once it is configured further, at some level, it will have a variety of applications ranging from aircraft to marine to power generation. We are going for an upgraded version of the Kaveri engine over the next two years. There is a lot of scope for us to design and develop a higher thrust class of engine and we are waiting for the contract with Snecma to go through. The requirements of the IAF will be the first priority for us while developing any type of higher thrust engine.

    Can you mention any developments on the partnership with Snecma?

    I would like to defer this question till such time as we sign the contract. Then we will come out with exactly what the benefits are. However, I can assure that this will be very beneficial for the country.

    What are the benefits that have accrued from the Kaveri engine programme?

    Firstly we are able to design a gas turbine engine today for a particular specification which was not possible two decades ago. The very fact that we are capable of developing an aero engine is the reason why other engine houses around the world are now prepared to join hands with us for jointly developing a higher level engine. Our design capability in this field is now well-established.

    We have established all the facilities required to do the analysis for a gas turbine engine. An excellent material base has been created and the core materials for the engine have been certified to air worthy quality in coordination with Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and Mishra Dhatu Nigam (Midhani). There is also a certified Aeronautical Materials Test Laboratory (AMTL) in Hyderabad which is state-of-the-art and can cover the entire gamut of material testing required. Excellent infrastructure for manufacturing the Kaveri engine in house has also been made here at GTRE.

    Five engine test beds for aero engines are in operation and can simulate conditions in Bangalore and elevated conditions up to two km altitude at a Mach No of 0.40 forward speed conditions. Two of these test beds have been internationally calibrated where the GE engine for the LCA has been tested. The calibration level has been set so that any international engine can be tested here and we can establish and declare the thrust.

    We have also created a large vendor base both within and outside Bangalore who can manufacture, inspect and deliver precision aero components. The number of vendors has now reached 300 approximately and high quality routine parts can now be delivered to us by our vendors.

    What is the update on the Kaveri marine engine for the Indian Navy?

    The Kaveri marine engine is a spin off on the Kaveri engine. This was based on a requirement of the Indian Navy for 10-12 mw of power generation for naval applications. The Kaveri core engine has been used and we have developed one prototype which is undergoing tests at the naval dockyard in Vizag. BHEL will undertake manufacture of this marine engine once all development tests are complete. Marine engines need to last for 40,000 to 50,000 hours compared to aero engines which typically have a life of 2000 to 3000 hours. The marine environment also has creates very high vibrations and the challenge is to isolate these vibrations of 50-100 g to an acceptable 2-3g for the engine. The other challenges were the saturated salt environment with 100 per cent humidity and high inlet temperatures and corrosion. The engine has to work reliably despite all these factors.

    Can you tell us more about the indigenously developed air turbine starter developed by GTRE?

    The air turbine starter is a crucial technology that has been developed in house by GTRE. The Kaveri engine has to be started on ground using a pneumatic starter with high pressure air at around 4 atmospheres from a ground system being supplied to start the engine and get it to around 40 per cent speed after which we cut the starter. This starter was earlier supplied by Garret and due to sanctions — the supplies were stopped as well as maintenance and repair of the starters had stopped. Hence, we had to develop a starter with a higher capacity as the capacity of the Garret starter was limited. We went ahead and jointly developed this with a Bangalore-based company called Turbotech. While the Garret starter was qualified for 500 starts our indigenously developed air turbine starter is giving more than 1000 starts before a major overhaul.

    What is the relationship between GTRE and HAL?

    HAL has been our manufacturing partner from day one. HAL Koraput has produced items like the fan disc for the Kaveri engine while the HAL engine factory is manufacturing the jet pipe and afterburners. In fact, whatever parts that HAL could develop and manufacture from a prototype level, they have done. They have been our preferred partners from the inception of the Kaveri engine programme. Wherever they have not been able to support us due to constraints of time or availability we have sought outside vendors. When the Kaveri engine will need to move to serial production then that task to manufacture it will go to HAL

    What has been the learning for GTRE from the Kaveri engine programme?

    We have been able to design, develop and manufacture our own aero engine. So far we have made nine Kaveri engines and four core engines. Testing has been going on extremely well. We did have a lot of problems related to design, strength and safety earlier, now almost 98 per cent of those problems are behind us. We started virtually from scratch two decades ago and did not have the knowhow to manufacture this type of product. This resulted in the time frame for development being long as a result of wrong expectations which further led to cost overruns. Any gas turbine engine would take around 25-30 years to develop and at a cost of Rs 15-20000crore. With all our limitations, we have taken 22 years with limited resources in materials, manpower and funds at the same time creating a substantial infrastructure which will be of use to the nation.

    Developing of the required materials was an essential step for the Kaveri engine, followed by setting up the required design capability in house. This capability has to be audited and proven by engine houses from abroad. But no engine house from abroad came forward to help us in design enhancement and design audit. We had to go to Russia to Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM) to help us in auditing of the design and make some course corrections.

    Technologies like friction welding and inertia welding were not available initially but slowly due to advances in our own technology we may get access to such technology. Apart from this, other high technologies like BLISK (a combination of blade and disc) and high temperature thermal barrier coatings, among others, were not available to us. As a result, we had to make do with whatever technology was available with us at that time. We also learnt that for small orders for certain components, manufacturer’s abroad were not enthused and we were given low priority for these parts causing delays in their arrival.

    in reply to: Mirage 2000 in 2010 #2413829
    Kramer
    Participant

    As usual Aspis, another great post. makes for very interesting reading indeed. 🙂

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