KramerOne bad decision after another. The IAF ought to have learned after the original Mi-17 deal had its price doubled. The sole criterion for selecting the Mi-17 over the NH-90/AW101 and other modern Western analogues is price; with that advantage dwindling it’s just an aging platform that lacks advanced avionics and safety features.
At the least the IAF should have asked for the helos to be manufactured domestically given the size of their order; the Chinese are on the right road by buying the Ulan Ude manufacturing plant.
Not at all true. the Mi-17-V has reasonably advanced avionics and a modern cockpit which is a far cry from the Mi-8..buying 139 NH-90s would’ve cost the IAF billions of euros, much much more than the $700 million or so that they’ve paid for 139 Mi-17-Vs..a single NH-90 costs around $16 million or more depending on the fitment, whereas the Mi-17-V was procured for $5 million or thereabouts..that is one third the price for a helicopter that is extremely reliable and popular among helicopter pilots and excellent for the high altitude medium lift utility helicopter role..I cannot understand what your crib about the Mi-17 is since it is a very rugged and reliable machine, and as far as the IAF is concerned, it’s basically a step up from the Mi-8 which makes training, infrastructure and maintenance a lot easier.
“The new Mi-17s were amazing. The passenger loads were phenomenal, with the dual doors and ramp being indispensible. Also, the common cockpit configuration instrumentation was critical in the marginal weather,” Boera said.
KramerIAF set to buy an additional 59 Mi-17-Vs from Russia in addition to the 80 it ordered in 2008. The first of those 80 Mi-17-Vs will start arriving from this year and replace the Mi-8s which have served the IAF very well for decades.
Also news is that the Il-76 will be upgraded in Russia and then further upgrades will be carried out in India. After these upgrades, the Il-76 fleet will serve the IAF for another decade. C-17s will be likely to replace the Il-76 fleet eventually.
BTW, the article is wrong in that it didn’t account for 2 MKIs that crashed. the total number of MKIs in the IAF will be 270 with the latest 42 being purchased.
New Delhi. Russia is set to win another order for 59 multi role Mi 17 V5 helicopters in addition to the 80 ordered earlier, retaining Moscow’s traditionally dominant lead in selling military aircraft to New Delhi.
Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal P V Naik told India Strategic in an interview that the delivery of the first lot of 80 Mi 17 helicopters, ordered in 2008, would begin from later this year while the Indian Air Force (IAF) was now processing another request for an additional 59 helicopters.
IAF’s recent request for 42 SU 30 MKI aircraft has already been cleared by the Ministry of Defence, taking the total number of this air dominance combat jets order to a sizeable 272. IAF has also signed a contract with Rosoboronexport, Russia’s sole arms exporting agency, to upgrade its fleet of Soviet-vintage MiG 29 fighters and Il 76 airlifters while the Indian Navy has placed an order for 45 navalised version MiG 29K shipboard jets.
The order for the 272 SU 30 MKIs, is the biggest aircraft deal in numbers with Russia after that of the Mig 21s signed with the Soviet Union from 1968 onwards (Rs 2 crores or about $ 300,000 per aircraft at that time).
Aircraft were cheap in the Soviet days but now, an Su 30 MKI is around $ 50 million (Rs 230 crores) each, inclusive of some support packages and Transfer of Technology (ToT). The total cost for 272 SU 30 MKIs works out to $ 13.6 billion.
As for the Mig 21s, India bought more than 400 of them, and only around 140 of these aircraft, upgraded to Mig 21 Bis configuration with new avionics and BVR (Beyond the Visual Range) missiles, are to serve in the IAF inventory for another six or seven years. The upgrade has been undertaken by Russian and HAL facilities.
The MiG 29K deal touches nearly $ two billion and the upgrade of MiG 29s for the IAF nearly $ one billion. A Mi 17 V5 helicopter reportedly costs around $ five million (total nearly $ 700 million for 139 machines).
India has also purchased six Il 78 midair refuelers and three IL 76 aircraft for accommodating the Israeli Phalcon electronic radars, two of which have been delivered to India. The third Phalcon is due by end-2010. Meanwhile, IAF has ordered two more Phalcons on the same IL 76 platform.
Notably, as the Phalcon radars are heavy, the IL 76 airlifters have been upgraded with more powerful PS-90 engines, the cost though for them is quite high and not considered appropriate for upgrading the IAF’s fleet of less than 20 old Soviet-vintage Il 76 aircraft.
All these aircraft have served the Indian Air Force well; the Il 76 has a remarkable safety record, the Mi 17 has sustained the lifeline of the Indian troops in Siachin heights, and the MiG 25 gave IAF an intrusive capability that no missile or aircraft could intercept. The only point is that the Soviet vintage machines are old in age as well as in technology and need replacement with newer platforms with newer and extreme technologies to last 30 to 40 years in the coming decades.
Air Chief Marshal Naik disclosed that the IL 76s, first acquired in April 1985, are also under life extension under a contract with Russia. “The life extension of IL-76 aircraft would involve complete overhaul of airframe at the vendor’s premises in Russia… The first aircraft has already been positioned and the servicing has commenced. Various other upgrades would be executed in India. Post-servicing, the aircraft would be available to us for more than 10 years,” he said.
Kramerback to India..
how about C-27s or C-295s to replace the An-32s instead of waiting for Russia to create something of their own (which may not even surface at all as they have their own interests)
They have sent out an RFI to Alenia for the C-27J Spartan. There was a news article on it some time ago.
BTW, the An-32s are going through a serious upgradation program in the Ukraine, including new cockpit avionics, engine modifications, life extension and crew comfort mods. They can continue to serve the IAF for another 15 years at the very least, if not more.
KramerLivefist is reporting the latest rumour..that the MiG-35 has been knocked out of the competition..
I know its getting rather boring with all the rumours followed by denials..so take this rumour for what its worth. I’d just wait for the IAF or the MoD to announce the names of the fighters that have progressed to the commercial bids round.
Kramer“having the right tools for the job”!? Granted, but 7 different types when USAF will standardise on 3? Are we saying they dont have the right tools for the job?
how many types does the PAF use now ? answer that your argument about using the USAF as a barometer basically has no legs to stand on..
oh and what is the PLAAF (the PAF’s taller than mountain friend) doing with J-6 (just retired), J-7, J-8, J-8II, Su-27, Su-30MKK, JH-7 and J-10A ? so many types because they’ve not yet recieved your specialist advice ? or rather because each serve their own purpose and there is a good reason why each serves in the PLAAF ? I’m sure that Chinese members can point out exactly why each is used and how even though functions may overlap they serve a purpose for the PLAAF.
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KramerI love the way you guys always bring it back to PAF,it is like an obsession!
However, let me clarify.
A-5 – Last sqd now converting to JF-17
Mirage 3/5 = being replaced by JF-17
F-7 = being replaced by JF-17
F-16In future F-20.
So in 2-3 years PAF will operate 3 fighter types.
That compares to 6 for the IAF (MRCA, M2K, MIG-29, SU-30, LCA, Jaguar)
That is still more types then any other air force on the planet….
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Even with 3-4 types for the PAF and 6 for the IAF in the future, the numbers indicate that the IAF will be operating more of almost every type than the PAF, making training, maintenance and logistics economical for each type..that compared to the PAF which has half or a little more than half the total numbers of the IAF, the situation is not going to improve that much or be that much worse for the IAF.
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KramerI don’t find the A-7 good looking but that video of the Hellenic AF flying the A-7 so close to the waters was very impressive..and it wasn’t some 20 second low flying, looks like the pilots were used to flying that low to avoid radar spotting them both due to sea clutter as well as to stay below the horizon..seems like a very steady handling jet to be flown that close to the ground/water at such speeds..somewhat like a Jaguar.
KramerThose might be access panels.
KramerWell, good luck with the flying circus!
Same to the PAF, PA and PN with its rotary wing flying circus assembled from all types of sources and in all sorts of ways..;)
Kramerare the Finns unhappy with their F-18 Hornets ? Their attrition rate is quite low, only 3 out of 65. And when those Hornets are gone, they won’t have any option but to go for the F-35. Surely PAK-FA is out of the question for the Finns.
Kramerthe Finnish Air Forces is looking at other possible jet fighters on the market.
due to the high price for 15 years of service…
A billion euros for upgrading 62 Hornet C/Ds doesn’t sound that bad..India’s Mirage-2000 upgrade contract is supposedly nearly twice that amount, although I suspect it includes weapons contracts (for eg. MICA missile stocks) as well as the cost of avionics, electronics and life extension that will allow the Mirages to be used till 2025. Even the MiG-29UPG upgrade for around 62 MiG-29s in the IAF’s fleet cost the IAF around $900 million or thereabouts and it doesn’t include any new weapons purchases.
Kramermore news to debunk the BS that certain posters were talking about.
THANJAVUR: Thanjavur Air Force Station may start functioning as a major air base by 2012, said Air Marshal Sumit Mukerji, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Southern Air Command, Indian Air Force here on Tuesday.
“Construction work both technical and infrastructure is currently in progress .
We foresee most of the things to be in place by 2012 and certainly we may have major operations from here,” he told ‘The Hindu’.
The runway is expanded now in the station. The plan is to increase the length of the runway to make it capable for major operations, said Air Marshal Mukerji. The base will be developed to handle not only fighter and transport aircrafts but also refuelling aircrafts. Asked about the type of fighter aircrafts that will be operated from here, Air Marshal Mukerji said it will be decided by Air Force high command. It may be the new Light Combat Aircraft or Mirage aircraft. Final basing of aircrafts will be decided by high command only, he said.
So maybe the IAF is now trying to base Mirage-2000s far away from the border so they won’t have to intercept any enemy fighters, huh ? :rolleyes:
The simple fact is that the IAF now wants to develop bases in the peninsular region as well to allow the IN and IAF to operate far from the mainland.
KramerNo real danger of LCA intercepting enemy fighters down south I guess.
:rolleyes:
trolling aside, its mainly because they want it to be based near Bangalore. HAL can easily provide support for fighters based in the South as technicians can be dispatched far faster from HAL in Bangalore rather than having them based in the North. When the teething troubles are all worked out, they will be based in the North as well..Phalodi, Rajasthan is a likely Tejas base in the future.
KramerImpressive marketing, sadly they are not selling to the public.
impressive indeed ! having Prof. Prodyut Das, Pushpinder Singh Chopra and retd AM Rajkumar writing basically for the Gripen IN does show how these OEMs can use famous personalities to shape at least the public’s opinion of a particular fighter..
KramerIs the astra and r77 operational?
are you seriously asking this or do you find it too difficult to google the status of the Astra ?
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