KramerSo the question remains as to why would the PLAAF or PLANAF acquire any more JH-7Bs if they can as well acquire J-11Bs or J-15s ? Regarding their being cheaper to operate, is there any source to confirm this ? Can anyone point to a good (non wikipedia) article that traces the history of the JH-7 design ?
Kramervery interesting indeed ! the JH-7 reminds me of what the HF-74 design might have been like, albeit a little smaller, had it been given the go-ahead in the 70s..Would love to get my hands on that issue of IAPR or if anyone has scanned those pages..
My question to those who know the JH-7 better is regarding the specific role of the JH-7..when the PLAAF has the basic Su-27 and the Su-30MKK, what is the exact role that the JH-7 performs that these other 2 heavy aircraft cannot ?
KramerThat is the entire radome, the Zhuk-AE AESA prototype has a much smaller antenna than the original radome. This is probably due to the current T/R-modules having high power and cooling requirements which the MiG-29 was unable to handle. Keep in mind though that the array occupies the entire diameter of this new radome, unlike the older antenna which had to allow clearances for swivelling. The F-16E/F also has a slightly smaller radome than previous Falcons, although the diffrence is not as big as it is with the MiGs, of course.
Trident, it has to do with the size of the Zhuk-AE’s back end processors and associated cooling. I read about it in some interview. Once the size of those back end signal processors, etc. are reduced, they will be able to fit a larger sized antenna into the MiG-35’s nose. The antenna being offered to the IAF for the Zhuk-AE for the MRCA has 1024 T/R modules AFAIK, which will require that the antenna be pushed back further into the nose, implying that when it is finally ready, the radome will once again look similar to that on MiG-29Ks.
KramerJaguar re-engining is back in the news. the Honeywell option will be the riskier one, considering that it is not certified for the Jaguar and if any issues arise during flight testing, it will have to be resolved while introducing delays. Nevertheless, the lifecycle cost savings and performance benefits that they’re advertising are tempting as well.
By Neelam Mathews
NEW DELHIRivals Honeywell and Rolls-Royce are trading public barbs as they await the delayed request for proposals to re-engine India’s fleet of 120 twin-engine Jaguar fighters, which have slowly become overweight and underpowered as a result of avionics and weapon systems upgrades.
Honeywell says its F125IN engine enables 23% shorter high-hot takeoffs, 17%-40% higher thrust and 36% greater fuel range than the Rolls-Royce engine currently powering the Jaguar. A fatigue analysis done by the Indian air force estimates the fleet could last another 25 years. Honeywell projects savings of $1.5 billion in lifecycle costs over the life of the program with its engine, according to Pritam Bhavnani, recently appointed president for Honeywell Aerospace India.
Comparing the F125 to the current Rolls-Royce Adour, Bhavnani says that Rolls-Royce “has yet to develop some aspects of the Adour Mk821… Our engine is a known one and been in production for awhile.”
“The Rolls-Royce Adour Mk821 will provide the proven … lowest-risk solution for certification, production, transition and operational phases,” a Rolls-Royce spokesman says. “It also provides economies of scale with the Hawk AJT [Advanced Jet Trainer] engine, already manufactured in India.”Honeywell says certification will be required for the engine and once the Indian air force puts its program into place, the engine might need modifications “to resolve any issue” uncovered by flight testing. If there are no changes, Bhavnani anticipates 3-4 years from the order to the start of deliveries.
Rolls-Royce says the Adour Mk821 engine “requires no airframe development, therefore Rolls-Royce offers the fastest and most cost-effective solution… It is the only low-risk option.”
Both engines were tested in India at the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) facility in Bengaluru.
Honeywell and HAL have been collaborating to produce the TPE331 engine that powers the HAL-built Dornier 228 aircraft, for which an agreement was signed in 2008 to have the engine produced by HAL, making it the first aerospace engine to be fully manufactured in India for the world market.
The project is being undertaken in a phased approach. Honeywell already has transferred 200 components to HAL. Phase two is being looked at now and the final manufacturing phase will take another year, Bhavnani says.
KramerI`m very impressed by this landing gear!
I`m curious as to if this landing gear is ‘truly’ indigenous.
in the carrier-based LCA?Regards
Pioneer
I think that your question about how indigenous the landing gear is will be answered by this paragraph, from the speech given by LCA Navy Programme Director, Commodore Balaji.
Areas identified as challenges over and above the Air Force Version were structural design, Landing gear design, arrester hook, introduction of a new control surface (LEVCON) and ski-jump take-off. A case in point for Naval specific activities was the development of large sized landing gear forgings. Midhani had to develop the special tooling and processes and provide the special steel forgings. In addition, Bharat Forge, Pune provided the near shaped forgings of the major landing gear elements. These have been fabricated at private companies at Hyderabad and landing gears have been assembled at HAL (Nasik). Some of the typical challenges encountered during the development cycle, resulted in them taking longer than anticipated. However, today these have been resolved and we all await the aircraft’s rollout in the presence of the Hon’ble Raksha Mantri and the Chief of the Naval Staff.
Krameryou’re right, I forgot that..thanks for pointing that out.
KramerSince HAL has already supplied 74 MKIs, that leaves 106 already contracted MKIs that they have yet to deliver. At the rate of 28 per year, the rate at which HAL is now delivering Su-30MKIs, it means that by late 2013-early 2014 they’d have delivered all the 140+40 MKIs that they were to build in India. If the new contract for another 42 MKIs is signed this year then they can produce them starting 2014 and have them all delivered to the IAF by 2016. So it appears that the IAF will have all its 280 Su-30MKIs comprising 15 squadrons by 2016. Right now they have 122 Su-30MKIs in 6 squadrons (including the 2 lost to crashes).
In the meantime they’ll also likely start upgrading the Su-30MKIs..their hands are really full when one just looks at their fast jet orders and possible orders.
-another 30 odd Hawks to be built + a possible order for 57 more Hawk Mk.132s (40 more for IAF and 17 for IN)
-MiG-29 UPG program under which they will upgrade around 55 Baaz
-Mirage-2000 upgrade program under which they’ll upgrade around 50 Mirages
-Jaguar DARIN III upgrade program under which they’ll upgrade all the DARIN I and NAVWASS Jags
-40 Tejas Mk1 to be produced for the IAF and then after that comes the Tejas Mk2, of which about 100 are likely
-possible 50 N-LCA orders for the IN
-76 Sitara IJTs for the IAF (likely to be built at HAL Kanpur only)
-108 MRCA fighters for the IAF + possible 60 options
-PAK-FA development partnership + later on production of around 250 PAK-FA
in addition to these, the Rotary Division has its hands full too, with orders for
-150 Dhruvs
-possibly 70+ Light Combat Helicopters
-development of LUH and then 187 LUH to be manufactured
-development of a 10 ton class helicopter
And later on comes the development and production of the Medium Transport Aircraft with Russia and participation in the RTA-70 project for a Regional Airliner.
If I missed out on any please update me. Looks like HAL will need to go on a hiring spree, both for technicians as well as engineers and this decade will see HAL’s workshare go up tremendously.
And all this is just for the Indian armed forces..no wonder HAL has almost no incentive to export since their hands are full with just these orders. The problem is that at least some of these indigenous programs have a potential to be exported, but HAL has been very inward looking with their focus firmly on the IAF and IN. IMO, the time is right for the GoI to introduce private sector participation in some manufacturing and design/ development activities to lighten HAL’s load and bring in some more export oriented focus..the pie is finally large enough for both DPSU and private sector enterprises to have a large enough share.
KramerHigh level delegation from Russia to arrive to discuss MLU for the Su-30MKI
By Anantha Krishnan M.
BengaluruA high-level team from Rosoboronexport of Russia will visit India this month to finalize the technical aspects of the upgrade program for the Su-30 MKI fighter.
Avionics and radar are two major systems likely to be improved. A technical team from the Defense Research and Development Organization, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) and the Indian Air Force (IAF) will represent the Indian side.
A source tells AVIATION WEEK that upgrade discussions have been underway for the last two years. Russian bureaucratic procedures are said to be the main cause for the delay, while the Indian side is said to be putting pressure on the Russians to wind up the talks quickly.“Nearly 100 Su-30 MKIs will come for [upgrade] during overhaul,” the official says. “Every 10 years various systems need to be upgraded to current standards. However, the latter aircraft that are still to join the IAF will not be included in this module. They will probably come for a second stage upgrade later.”
The IAF version of the BrahMos supersonic missile is expected to join the Su-30 MKI soon.
Meanwhile, another Russian team is set to visit India this month to finalize the purchase of 42 additional Su-30 MKIs for the IAF. These are beyond those already contracted by HAL from Russia under license production. The Sukhois are built under license at HAL’s five divisions — Nasik, Koraput, Hyderabad, Lucknow and Korwa — and are later assembled, integrated, test flown and delivered from the HAL Nasik Division. Fifty Sukhois initially came from Russia between 2002 and 2005.
“These additional platforms are expected to be delivered after the completion of 140 + 40 aircraft by 2015 under the compressed delivery schedule program,” the official said. “Five divisions of HAL will be participating in this raw material phase manufacturing of additional Sukhois.”HAL’s deliveries began in 2004-2005, and so far 74 Sukhois have been rolled out from the Nasik Division. HAL expects to deliver 28 aircraft this year. The fighter is currently priced at Rs 240 crore ($51.4 million) and it will climb to about Rs 330 crore when the additional orders come in. The total value of those orders might go beyond Rs 15,000 crore considering the spare, engines, and ground handling equipment.
KramerCertainly a handsome aircraft (actually I prefer its look to the Air Force variant) and an impressive step forward for India’s aerospace industry.
But if its to operate with a useful load off the Ski Jump then its going to need the more powerful F414 or EJ200.
Another interesting line of thinking is IAC2 which is going to get catapults by all reports so if naval LCA is going to use them it will need a redesigned nose leg.
Fedaykin, the F-404-IN20 is only for the initial test flights and certification stage. Once the decision on which engine to go for the Tejas Mk2 is made, the N-LCA will share the same engine (either EJ200 or F-414)..actually the N-LCA needs the newer, higher thrust engine more than the regular LCA does since its empty weight is higher.
and the re-designed nose gear for catapult launching is quite some way off. The IN has committed to buying around 50 N-LCAs IF it performs upto their expectations. They have been forthcoming with funding and support for the N-LCA till now, but it still has some way to go before anything is certain about its status. If not, the other fighters that recieved RFIs from the IN (Sea Gripen, Sea Typhoon, F-35, F/A-18 E/F and Rafale) will have a chance.
KramerThe aircraft doesn’t have a launchbar. Are they going to use a ramp? Is there any info on the avionics/engines? I hope they’ll use a F35 style widescreen touchscreen and get rid of the HUD.
intended to be used with a ski ramp as part of STOBAR operations. the cockpit as of now is similar to the IAF LCA version, which means 3 MFDs, 1 smaller MFD, 1 HUD. But as Lt. Cmdr. Ankur, one of the test pilots for the Tejas and slated to be one of the first naval pilots to fly the N-LCA said, “its a quantum leap over the capabilities and systems that the Indian Navy’s fighters fly with today” in a direct reference to the Sea Harrier.
Kramersome more pics of the N-LCA from the tarmak007 blog
can make out the drooping nose in this image
KramerA few questions:
– It’s difficult to make out “nose droop” feature from the above snapshots. Can anyone confirm?
– Reduction in weight by 300-400 kgs is mentioned. Is this being done to NP-1 or did it refer to NP-2 ?
– NP-1 has a larger newly designed internal fuel tank? or was that for NP-2 single seat variant?
– Upgraded FBW can deploy levcon corrections throughout the flight envelope I suppose and not just for landings as mentioned in the press release?Overall I think its a neat looking plane. Should be interesting as further details and side profile snapshots emerge.
The nose droop was first implemented on the LCA twin seater itself. NP-1’s front fuselage and canopy is the same as that of PV-5 (LCA twin seater). The jigs and tools are the same. That commonality was the reason that they went in for a twin seat NP-1 first, since the tools and jigs are already ready for the twin seat PV-5. There will be some new tools for making the composite panels on the NP-2 hump and corresponding jigs as well as a modified canopy.
Weight reduction is an on-going process. The way it works is that while engineers work on ideas to reduce weight, the initial prototypes continue to be built. When the weight optimized parts are ready for release to manufacturing, they are planned for incorporation into the assembly line at certain stages depending on how fast they can be built. For items that have long lead times, such as landing gear forgings, this will take much more time and this is unfortunately going to be the case with the N-LCA since the N-LCA’s biggest weight contributors are the strengthened undercarriage and landing gear. The arresting hook attachment requires significant localized strengthening as well which adds weight but that will be optimized on the airframe on the work floor itself after the engineers come up with the final design. The optimization of the long lead items from suppliers are the ones that will make this a process that will stretch over a year or more.
NP-2 will have a fuel tank in the place of the second seat along with another avionics bay. NP-1 being a twin seater has one fuel tank deleted to accommodate the second pilot and ejection seat.
The LEVCONS are primarily intended to be a high lift device during the crucial landing phase and the FBW will use them in conjunction with the auto-throttle function to keep a steady flight path on approach to the carrier. I’m not sure if the FBW will actively use LEVCONs during other phases of flight or not.
KramerQuality over quantity.:p The Chinese will be phasing out the J-7s soon and replacing them with FC-1s/J-11s/Su-27SK/Su-30MKKs. I see the IAF’s view on Tejas as more like how the PLAAF’s handling the J-10; a small order of the initial version as a pat on the back, followed by using it as a springboard for a developing more modern, cutting-edge version that closes the gap between Indian aerospace tech and the rest of the world.
the PLAAF has to date shown no interest in the FC-1 Xiaolong, which IMO illustrates their thinking on how it compares to the J-10 despite being a better fit for a J-7 replacement, size and class wise. For them its a purely export oriented model.
KramerReally ? I only seen the movies was that the guy Dr. Chandra who appears in 2010 ?
read the book. Dr. Chandra was an Indian.
Kramer“Thank you Dave……. I only have the best interests of the mission….. ”
Sorry ….. I’ll get my coat 😀
Ken
Arthur C Clarke’s HAL had an Indian master as well, Ken..:P
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